Dara Torres-Amazing

An eye witness account of quicky physical changes is something to consider, although not proof of anything. Nope. I look one helluva lot different now than 2 years ago. Almost immediately upon starting masters swimming, my shoulders and back started growing. My kids joke that I'm on "roids." But I'm just on swimming. Personally, I wish swimming came without this side effect. The fact that Dara stayed in such peak physical condition during her off years is a key factor, I think.

Skip, Why do you care what I really think about Dara? After all, I am merely and average "John Smith" on deck. My opinion is not significant. John

FlyQueen, If you want to compare talent to Spitz on the female side you need to draw from greats like Tracy Caulkins and Mary T......... this is the level we are speaking about. Dara is stellar but never "owned" an individual event the way these people "owned" their events. John smith

Skip, I answered your question. Now you answer mine. That was no answer. John Smith My answer is No I do not believe that USMS Masters swimmers are taking illegal subtances unless its proven beyond a reasonable doubt. I can't speculate as to whole population of USMS. Now the difference here is that we are talking about one person as opposed to an unknown group of swimmers in USMS. I did not suspect anybody at last years World Championships. So your answer to my question was that you lean toward the articles conclusion and that Mr Busfield is correct in his assumptions and conclusions.

Paul Evil Smith has stated that until Dara has failed a drug test that its pointless to speculate. I don't ever recall saying that...I've had serious doubts (and expressed them) about a number of swimmers (USS & Masters) but have personally never witnessed anyone cheating. Interesting that today while I was coaching an Olympic teammate of Dara's was at practice who also happens to be good friends with Jenny & Amy. Her position was also one of skepticism mainly because she saw all 3 of these girls go thru sever physical transformation over a short period of time leading up to Trails.....coincidentally they all seemed to do so while "out of competition" and most likely not being tested...however once again not first hand knowledge. John.....glad to see you have finished moving, finished a good git of remodeling and found time to come back and fan the flames here....God forbid you might actually be getting back in the pool as well? Paul: Check #2, #3, and your response in #4, and my response in #5 in the link below. forums.usms.org/showthread.php

And they are relay medals. So she dragged ass and made her teammates pick up the slack? How many Olympic Medals do you have? How about American Records? It sounds like you are bound and determined to belittle Dara's accomplishments past and present. Why is that?

Call me charming, stupid, or naive but I really don't think she is doping. These allegations come out every time she makes a comeback, remember this is her second. Why is it so hard to believe that she could be doing this without doping? I have heard for forever that she is one of the most naturally talented swimmers of all time and has the best technique. As a girl that puts on muscle very easily I understand the change in appearance. Rachel Komisarz also gets accused from time to time for doping. She’s ripped but she also is into body building. I’ll defend them both until I see actual evidence to the contrary. People are so cynical and quick to judge – she’s been insanely fast and talented since she was a kid. She’s been able to maintain her speed, which by the way I think we established as easier to hold onto than endurance. I know we previously discussed how masters swimmers seem to be able to be more competitive in sprints rather than distance events – age, time to train, physical changes – whatever. Rock on Dara! I hope she wins the 50 free too and wins both events at trials. She is amazing. Instead of the criticism why don’t we all congratulate her.

Skip, Cripes,...... you don't need to be a "player" to offer a qualified opinion on this subject. You just have to PAY ATTENTION and think with your mind not your heart. I'll be honest with you, at the expense of my reputation as the most irritating masters swimmer, I will tell you my opinion. I lean toward the article's conclusion. The evidence is indeed circumstantial, but you can not deny that the drug testing performed these days is lagging and insufficient as clearly evidenced in the sport of cycling. Sorry Skip, seems like we've seen and heard about too much drug crap the last 15 years in this sport. It is disillusioning. All 3 of my children (14,12,8) swim competitively now. I have taught them that supplements and drugs beyond mere vitamins and protein powder are flat out cheating. I am confident they will not act foolishly in their future swimming career. I can not say that about a growing percentage of young swimmers who begin with lessor items as Creatine in highschool and expand from there in college and beyond. Balco was real..... no one on talked about it on this thread until the whistle was blown. No one knew about The Clear, THG, IGF-1, HGH and other designer steroids until recent years. How do we know that there isn't another Balco out there or another THG equivalent.............. we just don't. Note........ Paul is much more dipolmatic in his approach to the subject..... but don't think he doesn't have a strong opinion. Let me ask you a tough question now, Skip........ Do you think there are any top level Masters Swimmers who take human growth hormone, testosterone or other hardcore supplements ? Bad enough to cheat at the real thing (i.e. US Nationals)...... how pathetic, insecure and desperate for attention do you think it would be for a Masters swimmer to take these drugs? ........ :-) My god I wish I started this thread. I would win the "Most Controversial Thread" of the year award hands down. John Smith

Much like Jenny (The Slacker) Thompson, all 8 of her Olympic gold’s were on relays, and only one measly silver and bronze in individual events. And Jenny’s Bronze was shared with Dara. For that matter 5 of Spitz’s 9 gold’s were for relays. Well stated Rob, well stated.

Anyone else notice all it takes to get the Smith boys out of hibernation is a little dope (talking)? An eye witness account of quicky physical changes is something to consider, although not proof of anything. Geek.....what really got John & my attention was a rumor that you had some insight into "legal" supplements being used by middle age men who are former triathlete bashers that are going over to the "dark side"? :rofl: