What do you think of total immersion?

Originally posted by Frank Thompson What is the point to keep on hammering this? When did he ever need a point to continue incessant hammering?

When we are discussing training styles, what are the widely known alternatives to TI (besides "max yardage, conditioning" type practices)? TI provides a common starting point. We know it works at least at the "can change bad, to decent or good swimmer" level, so it has some merit. (I do not want to get sucked into pointless arguments of "how good".) So what are the alternatives that are widely known? And I don't mean "swim hard but still work on technique", because that tells you a goal, but not how to get there.

We seem to be on the who has he produced kick. My coach taught over a 60 thousand kids to swim and 8 or 9 Olympians. I respect him more for his teaching skills than his Olympian production. As you know I am not a fan of TI but let us respect what he Terry has done. My Coach Jimmy Thompson The Hamilton Aquatic Club began as an informal group in the late 1920's and was officially formed in 1932. Its members strongly influenced the organization of the aquatic portion of the First British Empire Games held in Hamilton, Ontario in 1930. As an umbrella association that included water polo, diving, open water swimming and competitive swimming it's adopted policy was to ensure that all athletes have the opportunity to participate regardless of financial status. Jimmy Thompson became the first coach of the Hamilton Aquatic Club in 1932. He devoted over 30 years of his life teaching over sixty thousand children how to swim. He was also credited for developing some of Canada's finest swimmers, divers and water polo players and syncronized swimmers. The strength of the Hamilton Aquatic Club was that it was always operated on a strong volunteer basis. The longest serving volunteer member was the Hall of Famer Jack McCormick. A founding member and athlete, Jack served the club later as a coach and administrator until when his health did not allow him to continue. Among the achievements by the club's members are Canadian and World Records, Olympic athletes and coaches, and two Canadian starters at an Olympic Games. several swimers, sycronized swimmers waterpolo players . The club's success is well measured by the number of members who have been included into the Ontario Aquatic Hall of Fame, among them, Jimmy Thompson, Jack McCormick, George Larson, Robert Thompson, and David Hart. Other notable members are Irene MacDonald, Gerry Thomas, Patty Thompson, George Steplock, Dan Sherry, George Park, Tom, Thurlow Park and Margaret Park just to name a few.

There you have it. Coaches who do not subscribe to the TI method all just advocate mindless yardage. Fine. Show me one Olympian produced by a TI program. Oh, I forgot, we musn't use the Olympics as a benchmark.

Originally posted by Frank Thompson I never said that Total Immersion was revolutionary. But that is exactly what TI claims to be.

Originally posted by Matt S Geek, Thanks, my feelings exactly. Matt I know you have feelings. But can you think the data?

Gull you are right most coaches use mindless yardage and mindless drills.

Originally posted by Frank Thompson What is the point to keep on hammering this? ... The reason I brought the link stories about Adrienne Binder and Joe Novak in this discussion was that Craig III and Gull wanted to know if there were elite swimmers using these TI methods to valid there training philosophy and swimming success. ... My point is that Joe Novak is not elite enough to make him a commercial that validates Total Immersion. Many swimmers at N.C.A.A. in 2005 went 41.xx seconds per 100. Novak's 44 in the 100 free would barely qualify for N.C.A.A. Division I. Zillions of swimmers are coached to be faster than Novak's 44, with methods contrary to Total Immersion. One 41.xx per 100 free is Fred Bousquet -of the 18.74 per 50 free fame- coached differently than Total Immersion by David Marsh at Auburn. If Novak's 44 per 100 free is Total Immersion's publicity for revolutionary coaching, then many faster than him who are coached in opposition to Total Immersion they are advertising better and more revolutionary coaching than Total Immersion. Below N.C.A.A., at high school level in 2005, 16-year old Alex. Forbes from Lyman in Florida went 20.22 in 50 free and 44.42 in 100 free. 17-year old and yet to fully develop physically Alex Righi from Brophy Prep in Arizona under coach Jon Kopas, swam in 2005 a 50 in 20.31 and a 100 in 44.76. What about 15 year old Jake Allen from Davis High School in California, and his 20.64 in 50 yards free? Isn't there a whole world out there that is more revolutionary than Total Immersion and opposite to Total Immersion? It seems to me it is. And is better to learn from the world of best results.

A couple of things to keep in mind... 1) Not every swimmer's success is directly linked to his or her coach. Sure, good coaching is important but so is work ethic and a persons physiological makeup. 2) If TI is not revolutionary and simply uses methods from other coaches wrapped up in a flashy package, then by bashing TI you are effectively bashing those from whom the ideas originally came from. Whatever the case may be, TI has quite a following and seems to be helping a lot of people improve their swimming. If anybody should appreciate that on this forum it should be Gull80, the cardiologist. Every time TI gets another person in the pool they could very well be keeping them out of the ER and out of Gull's office.

Originally posted by scyfreestyler ... 2) If TI is not revolutionary and simply uses methods from other coaches wrapped up in a flashy package, then by bashing TI you are effectively bashing those from whom the ideas originally came from. ... You miss the point. Total Immersion borrows points from elsewhere, but is a mixture of good and bad that has declared war on the non followers of its cult. It advised adult swimmers to learn Total Immersion and stay away from Masters swimming. At the 2004 Short Course World Championships in Indianapolis -right after the 2004 Athens Olympics-, Terry Laughlin -the author of Total Immersion and a profiteer- started to talk smack about the U.S. swimmers. It prompted successful coaches to ask what are Laughlin's credentials.