What do you think of total immersion?

Ion Beza Right on ask any coach what he thinks about another coach they will always tell you the truth. I remember when the college coaches were asking me to swim at their schools they all told the truth (they were the best). Please ask them them and report. Then tell us what they said then let us tell you what we think about them. I saw a movie once it was The Never Ending Story.

Originally posted by Ion Beza You miss the point. Total Immersion borrows points from elsewhere, but is a mixture of good and bad that has declared war on the non followers of its cult. It advised adult swimmers to learn Total Immersion and stay away from Masters swimming. At the 2004 Short Course World Championships in Indianapolis -right after the 2004 Athens Olympics-, Terry Laughlin -the author of Total Immersion and a profiteer- started to talk smack about the U.S. swimmers. It prompted successful coaches to ask what are Laughlin's credentials. Where is this documented?

Originally posted by aquageek There's a heaping helping of irony in that statement, huh? Geek, Thanks, my feelings exactly. Matt

One of the best HS coaches C-U has ever seen was a football coach who was asked to help out with the swim team. He knew how to get boys to come out for the team and how to get the best out of them. He recently retired, and all the swimmers miss him, although the new coach is doing quite well and was a swimmer!

Originally posted by gull80 There you have it. Coaches who do not subscribe to the TI method all just advocate mindless yardage. Gull, I wasn't being rhetorical or condescending. (And if you re-read it without going with your reflex response, you'd see that.) That was a real request for information. Many people are familiar with TI. People are also familiar with grinding out yardage. I was asking if there were other common references we could use, in case we wanted to move the argument beyond TI. (I've mentioned Colwin's books, which I'm sure many people don't have. Others have mentioned Maglischo's book, which I don't have.)

Originally posted by gull80 Sorry, but that's how it came across to me. Look, there are scores of successful coaches who don't package and market their methods (not that there's anything wrong with that). As for reference books, I like Maglischo's Swimming Fastest, among others. But it's a lot bigger than the TI publications, so you can't read it cover to cover in an afternoon or slip it into your swim bag. It is also very technical, so a newby to swimming would have a hard time getting through it(speaking as when I was a newbie and picked it up the first time). It has taken many readings, of different chapters, and still there is much to learn from this book. It think that is another reason why TI appeals. I sat down and read it cover to cover in an afternoon, understood the components well enough to start trying things out from it. So someone who is new to swimming, is stuggling with trying to get across the pool can pick up TI and feel success right away. To me, I see nothing wrong with getting more people in the water to swim. There are more reasons to swim besides swimming the fastest 500 at Nationals and TI fills a need in that market.

It would be completely nonsensical for TI to discouage folks from swimming in a Masters program. First, it's the only national "league" for adult swimmers beyond the glory of speedy youth (with the exception of a few great swimmers such as Smith and Lehman, who could probably still beat 99% of the kids out there). Second, it's a social network where people can promote TI, should they find it useful to them. I'm not sure why TI gets folks so riled up. It's just a training program, albeit with a slight chip implantation.

To: Originally posted by scyfreestyler Where is this documented? and to Indy Gal: it pays to read first the links that are brought up, as doing the pre requisite homework.

Originally posted by Ion Beza To: and to Indy Gal: it pays to read first the links that are brought up, as doing the pre requisite homework. Did you mean to address this to me?

Originally posted by geochuck Ion Beza Right on ask any coach what he thinks about another coach they will always tell you the truth. ... Still: what are Terry Laughlin's credentials? Compared to hundreds of swimmers and coaches with faster results that validate their opposite methods. For example the thread I linked has rotary style -in opposition to the Front Quadrant's pause advocated by Total Immersion- in Alex. Popov and Ian Thorpe. I can also dig a quote about rotary style and kick sets training of Jodie Henry -a gold medalist in 53.52 in the 100 free at the 2004 Athens Olympics- from coach Shannon Rollason. Please no more Matt's "...Total Immersion...will make you faster and better than you would be swimming your same old..." because that's hermetic and absent minded to news and data posted here for years.