Butterfly, beautiful to watch, difficult to train.
We SDK off every wall.
We're most likely to smack hands with each other and those beside us.
Fly's fun to sprint but no fun when the piano comes down
What did you do in practice today?
the breastroke lane
The Middle Distance Lane
The Backstroke Lane
The Butterfly Lane
The SDK Lane
The Taper Lane
The Distance Lane
The IM Lane
The Sprint Free Lane
The Pool Deck
I swam 12.6 25-fly SCY and 1:05 100 SCY recently off the blocks. By my club's standards, I am a strong SDKer. I would like to get to 1:03 or better but local club only offers 4 w/outs per wk and at 59 y.o., I am not getting any faster by the month. Hence, looking for some tricks.
I will try AllenStark advice and see where it takes me. Thanks!
I'm not having much luck successfully completing that 4x50 fly set on 1:05 and holding my times. The first two 50's were fine, but I needed an additional 5 seconds for the next two (1:10). Even then, my times increased to :58 and :59. :whiteflag: Now I'm mad (which is good!)! :censor: I am determined to accomplish this goal of successfully completing your suggested set!
Very good, you got pretty close and now you have a benchmark to work from.
If I understand your post properly, you did this:
50 fly@:55/1:05,
50 fly@:55/1:05,
50 fly@:58/1:10,
50 fly@:59/OMG I am glad I don't have to do another one!
One approach is to try to back off just a bit on the first two. Can you eliminate 1 SPL and still go :57? If you can decrease 1SPL, that's a savings of 2 strokes per 50 (You are doing this SCY aren't you?), which should allow you to hold up a little longer before the piano falls. (You only had a 4s fade on the last one though, so that was a pretty small piano.)
Another approach is to change the interval to 1:10 for all 4. Once you can make that, try to decrease the interval. 1:10 and 1:05 make the clock easier to read, but there is no reason that you can't use 1:08 or 1:06 or whatever. For complicated intervals, I will sometimes write the start times down on a piece of paper, slip it into a zip-lock bag and set it on the deck propped up by a pullbouy so I can see it during my set. For example, on the 1:07 interval, your pushoffs would be: 00, 07, :14 and :21. My note would look like this:
# pushoff target finish
1 00 55
2 07 02
3 14 09
4 21 16
In this example, ideally, you would be getting :12 rest between 50s.
IMO, such sets are a very good way to train for 200s. I aim for 8-12s rest between 50s and typically do 200 easy recovery between each 4x50 effort. I might do 5 rounds of (4x50 + 200), but never more than 3 of a given stroke. 3 rounds of fly would be brutal. I would suggest maybe 4 rounds total, alternating between fly and something else.
I'd be interested to hear how this goes for you. What's the fastest interval that you can use and hold your pace? (I'm guessing that :55 is a good target pace.)
Another fun way to practice fly is to swim a 200 "fly" where you swim N strokes of fly on the Nth length. So for a SCY 200:
On length 1; pushoff, do as many SDKs as you would usually do then take 1 stroke of fly and finish the length free.
On length 2; pushoff, do as many SDKs as you would usually do then take 2 strokes of fly and finish the length free.
On length 3; pushoff, do as many SDKs as you would usually do then take 3 strokes of fly and finish the length free.
Continue in the same pattern for 8 lengths. Try to complete the 8th length with just the 8 strokes of fly, no free.
A set I like that incorporates this is: 3x(200 "fly" + 200 kick).
I don't know if this set is a useful way to train for the 200 fly, but it is a lot of fun!
A possibly useful modification would be to do the free part as free with fly kick.
Very good, you got pretty close and now you have a benchmark to work from.
If I understand your post properly, you did this:
50 fly@:55/1:05,
50 fly@:55/1:05,
50 fly@:58/1:10,
50 fly@:59/OMG I am glad I don't have to do another one!
One approach is to try to back off just a bit on the first two. Can you eliminate 1 SPL and still go :57? If you can decrease 1SPL, that's a savings of 2 strokes per 50 (You are doing this SCY aren't you?), which should allow you to hold up a little longer before the piano falls. (You only had a 4s fade on the last one though, so that was a pretty small piano.)
Another approach is to change the interval to 1:10 for all 4. Once you can make that, try to decrease the interval. 1:10 and 1:05 make the clock easier to read, but there is no reason that you can't use 1:08 or 1:06 or whatever. For complicated intervals, I will sometimes write the start times down on a piece of paper, slip it into a zip-lock bag and set it on the deck propped up by a pullbouy so I can see it during my set. For example, on the 1:07 interval, your pushoffs would be: 00, 07, :14 and :21.
Thanks for your positive and detailed reply! Great stuff! :applaud:
A disclaimer (excuse???): Today was my 6th day in a row and it followed a sprint day, so I may do better with this set on Thursday after tomorrow's day off. (I hope so!) To answer your question, yes, you interpreted my unclear post correctly. :blush:
I am going to try an interval of 1:10 on Thursday and see how I do. As for stroke count, unlike breaststroke where I can start a 200 from a push off at 8 strokes and end up with 12 on the last length of the race, I am a consistent 10-stroke flyer that will end with 11. I don't have the strength to go any less than 9 SPL without losing A LOT OF SPEED, and that will only be on the first 25 yards.
Your set idea does sound like fun if I could modify the stroke count on the last length. ;) I would be curious to hear from the Forumite gallery if it would be useful training for a 200 fly race. Forumites???
Meanwhile, I'll keep you posted on my progress.
I've never been a fly swimmer! But I want to add it to my workouts for additional conditioning and variety.
Will using a mono fin make the fly stroke any easier until I increase my strength, endurance and technique to swim without the swim aide?
disclaimer: I am NOT a butterflyer, I do, however, enjoy time calculations and estimates.
Given that you know how to do mega-distance fly, although you may be "pokey" (or so you say) you can probably sustain what speed you have pretty well. You were basically holding :55/50 on the 4x50 set with decreasing intervals. I'd guess that you can get quite close to sustaining that given proper motivation. That's a 3:40 add-up, which I note is not too far from your pr 3:50.
The descending intervals give you extra recover in the first repeats though. For a better estimate, I suggest that you do 4x50 SCY fly on 1:05. (Yes, this will be uncomfortable. I've done it. I know.) Your add up should be a reasonable estimate of your 200 SCY fly time. Using this time and an SCY-LCM converter you can get an estimate for your 200 LCM fly.
I also suggest that you time trail a 225 SCY fly in practice. This will probably be a faster than your 200 LCM fly time, but in the same ballpark. Check out this thread for some discussion of this idea.
forums.usms.org/showthread.php
Compare these two estimates.
I'm not having much luck successfully completing that 4x50 fly set on 1:05 and holding my times. The first two 50's were fine, but I needed an additional 5 seconds for the next two (1:10). Even then, my times increased to :58 and :59. :whiteflag: Now I'm mad (which is good!)! :censor: I am determined to accomplish this goal of successfully completing your suggested set!
Another approach is to change the interval to 1:10 for all 4.
I took yesterday off, so I went in fresh today. After an 800 warm up, I swam a practice 400 IM race and followed it with 100 EZ. Next, I tackled your suggested 4x50 fly @ 1:10 with the goal of holding :50-:55's. My times were: :54, :54, :55, :54. I'm curious how it would have been if I hadn't done a 400 IM race beforehand; however, I really wanted to get that in today, because I hadn't raced it in awhile.
It's amazing how much easier 1:10 is than 1:05 on those last two 50's! Five seconds doesn't sound like a lot, but it makes a huge difference in the pool! :banana:
...It's amazing how much easier 1;10 is than 1:05 on those last two 50's! Five seconds doesn't sound like a lot, but it makes a huge difference in the pool! :banana:
Indeed. I can hold sub-40s for 4x(50 fly/1:00), but tighten that interval and those times go up in a hurry!
You were getting 15-16s rest. I not sure about about the 200 fly, but for bk or br, the times I can hold for 4x50 with 8-12s rest give an add-up that is a reasonable estimate of my 200 race time. So... I recommend that you whittle that interval down while attempting to keep your splits even and see what you can do. Keep flyin'
Indeed. I can hold sub-40s for 4x(50 fly/1:00), but tighten that interval and those times go up in a hurry!
You were getting 15-16s rest. I not sure about about the 200 fly, but for bk or br, the times I can hold for 4x50 with 8-12s rest give an add-up that is a reasonable estimate of my 200 race time. So... I recommend that you whittle that interval down while attempting to keep your splits even and see what you can do. Keep flyin'
Will do, Karl. Thanks! I needed advice on how best to improve my race, and your suggestions give me a concrete direction and goal. I'm a Butternut, so I will keep flyin'! :bliss:
Couple questions for the butterfly lane...where should my hands be when I breath? Also, on occasion I feel as though I am lifting too much water on my back/upper shoulders? Am I coming up too early to breath and/or possibly going too deep? Thanks!
