The Butterfly Lane

!. butter fly 2. butter struggle 3. butter ugly the 3 stages of fly for most swimmers!!!!!!!!

What % of total workout would you recommend working up to on fly (or is the answer 100% :afraid:)? I have been doing typically 4500yds 2 x per week, split approx 800 free warm up, 800-1200 Fly & IM mix, 2000-2400 free, 500 sprint work & cool down. Thanks:bump: I would recommend no change to your warmup or your cooldown. Slowly increase the amount of fly that you do in the other sections of your workout. As far as ratio goes, today was 40% fly for me (2500 yards, 1000 fly). For the last 52 weeks overall, I'm at 26.6% fly (yes I have all kinds of nerdy stats). So if you do approach 100%, tell me what it's like because I've never done anything like that :anim_coffee:

Will do :) Last year I started back with a good mix of IM work and I have been working on my endurance lately in preparation for the 500 free I swam on Saturday. Since the new year I started incorporating more fly and less IM into my workouts, but still doing mostly free. The idea is to now replace some of that freestyle yardage with fly. What % of total workout would you recommend working up to on fly (or is the answer 100% :afraid:)? I have been doing typically 4500yds 2 x per week, split approx 800 free warm up, 800-1200 Fly & IM mix, 2000-2400 free, 500 sprint work & cool down. Thanks:bump: I race the 200 fly about as often if not more than That Guy, but I don't train with as my % of fly in my day to day workouts. I try to train primarily for mid-distance free, and an IM base for workouts. Some days I may not have any more than 100 yards of fly, other days I may hit 800-1000 (these are with an avg. of 3000-3500 yards per workout). I also like to go for more endurance type training with my fly rather than all race-paced stuff. I'll do things like 5 x 100 @ 1:30, building from a 100 free on the first, substituting a 25 fly on each consecutive 100 until by the 5th one you're at a 100 fly. Or doing sets like 150s, where you alternate by 50s: fly, free, fly. Biggest thing is try not to lose control of your stroke. When you feel like you're falling apart...slow down the interval to get more rest. Nothing like trying to swim with an anchor tied around your waist. :afraid:

I take the exact opposite approach of James: I do only race pace fly or perfect technique fly and not that much of it. You can train free for fly to a large extent. But then, like no200fly, I'm not entering the 200 fly. Just contemplating doing 100% of a workout fly, Louise, makes me shudder. Even if you have no shoulder problems, I would still advise building up fly endurance very very gradually. And swimming sloppy fly is just not worth it, as other have pointed out. Maybe instead of focusing so much on full stroke fly yardage, you could also include some dolphin kicking. After all, this is a leg driven stroke. My race pace for a 200 fly = easy pace fly Way back I ended up doing mixed fly/free to train for the 200 and ended up so shattered I lost my stroke - a bit like this really: !. butter fly 2. butter struggle 3. butter ugly the 3 stages of fly for most swimmers!!!!!!!! Now I have the luxury of setting my own workout and usually having my own lane, so no excuses to skimp on fly. Also plenty of scope for rest as needed, and to set longer intervals (not trying to keep up with the freestylers) plus the ability to do kick and drills correctly at a steady pace. Do not worry people - I have every intention of building up gradually! I had a couple of compliments on my fly this weekend, which gave me the confidence that I can do this again - and stroked my ego nicely:)

Go Go Go! But work up to it slowly. I hurt myself in 2009 by trying to do too much, and I already had a decent base of fly to work with at that time. One whole training cycle (SCM season) was basically wasted. I've found that the sets I've been posting lately are less likely to cause injury because... uh... I haven't injured myself lately :blush: Will do :) Last year I started back with a good mix of IM work and I have been working on my endurance lately in preparation for the 500 free I swam on Saturday. Since the new year I started incorporating more fly and less IM into my workouts, but still doing mostly free. The idea is to now replace some of that freestyle yardage with fly. What % of total workout would you recommend working up to on fly (or is the answer 100% :afraid:)? I have been doing typically 4500yds 2 x per week, split approx 800 free warm up, 800-1200 Fly & IM mix, 2000-2400 free, 500 sprint work & cool down. Thanks:bump:

Today I did 1400 fly, mostly drill and kick, out of 4800, so thats about 30% and feel fine! Over the past 6 weeks I have been doing around 6-900 fly drill/kick work per session already. I dropped a stroke per length last week too :bliss: Great job! When I said "slowly increase" I meant week-by-week, month-by-month, or even year-by-year. But it does sound like you've been building a base. I guess we need to wait and see if you post "owwwwwwwwwww" tomorrow.

I take the exact opposite approach of James: I do only race pace fly or perfect technique fly and not that much of it. You can train free for fly to a large extent. But then, like no200fly, I'm not entering the 200 fly. Just contemplating doing 100% of a workout fly, Louise, makes me shudder. Even if you have no shoulder problems, I would still advise building up fly endurance very very gradually. And swimming sloppy fly is just not worth it, as other have pointed out. Maybe instead of focusing so much on full stroke fly yardage, you could also include some dolphin kicking. After all, this is a leg driven stroke. Yet another example of why me & Fort should be workout partners. I too do not believe in anything but fast fly - either all out sprint or strong 50's. My fav set is 100's - 50 free/50 fly on a long rest interval, easy swim in between. SCM; start at holding 1:15 and work down to 1:10 or faster (ie, a strong free time). So you aren't cruising the first 50; you still have to go out sub 35 in order to bring it home for that 50 fly. Another fav set is the broken 100's 100 straight (no more than 10 sec over your 100 time) 50 10 sec 50 50 10 sec 25 5 sec 25 4 x 25 5 sec subtract 15 you should be at or under your 100 time And for you die hards that like fly fly and more fly and actual annual challenge set we did once or twice a year in college 13 x 200's fast on 1, 4, 7, 10 and 13 at race speed if possible, but no holding back on #1. easy on 2x200's in between interval is total elapsed time of 2:30, 3, 3:30 i held 2:15's on the 5 x 200 flys. college time was a 2:06. hey people! here's an aggie joke: how do you make a 200 flyer? take the 1500 swimmer and the 50 swimmer and have them train the 200 fly! no kidding! i would probably modify this set to 50's or do 10 x rounds, do the four fast as a 100/75/50/25 fly at true race speed, and easy 100's in between. I would focus more on drills, especially kicking drills, to create more lift and a balanced kick (ie, kick up as well as down. no one has trouble with the down. it's the up that usually isn't so good). You get the most bang for the buck here - so another way of agreeing with Fort - in other words, you don't have to get ANY stronger in the arms, but if are overall stronger in your legs, better lift, then you are able to hold the water better out in front and thus have a stronger, more efficient and effective pull.

I would recommend no change to your warmup or your cooldown. Slowly increase the amount of fly that you do in the other sections of your workout. Good, good, I wasn't planning to change those drastically, just shift some of that free out of the middle into fly and/or IM :) As far as ratio goes, today was 40% fly for me (2500 yards, 1000 fly). For the last 52 weeks overall, I'm at 26.6% fly (yes I have all kinds of nerdy stats). So if you do approach 100%, tell me what it's like because I've never done anything like that:anim_coffee: Today I did 1400 fly, mostly drill and kick, out of 4800, so thats about 30% and feel fine! Over the past 6 weeks I have been doing around 6-900 fly drill/kick work per session already. I dropped a stroke per length last week too :bliss: I started out with 50s fly today and the plan is to up that distance by 25yd every 2 weeks or so over the next 3 months reaching 200yds just in time for the outdoor 25m pool to open, whereby I'll be doing 200m. I'll likely drop the number of reps though. 100% fly workout doesn't actually appeal. :D

I see that many think that because I don't type "race pace" for my fly training, that I must be swimming slow relaxed fly. This is not the case however. I do swim longer distances of fly, or mixed with fly & free, but I do swim them at a hard pace, with a shorter amount of rest, much like training distance freestyle. I may not be swimming at 95-100%, but who really can do that in practice?? I do swim fast fly too, don't think I don't...I just don't put that much emphasis on it until after the BEEP at the meets. I've had no problem with my speed in fly either, actually I can go too fast in my fly if I'm not careful. In sets, I do repeated 200s on 2:45/3:00 holding 2:25s or under at a nice controlled pace, which I don't consider race pace. :2cents:

Yet another example of why me & Fort should be workout partners. I too do not believe in anything but fast fly - either all out sprint or strong 50's. My fav set is 100's - 50 free/50 fly on a long rest interval, easy swim in between. SCM; start at holding 1:15 and work down to 1:10 or faster (ie, a strong free time). So you aren't cruising the first 50; you still have to go out sub 35 in order to bring it home for that 50 fly. Another fav set is the broken 100's 100 straight (no more than 10 sec over your 100 time) 50 10 sec 50 50 10 sec 25 5 sec 25 4 x 25 5 sec subtract 15 you should be at or under your 100 time And for you die hards that like fly fly and more fly and actual annual challenge set we did once or twice a year in college 13 x 200's fast on 1, 4, 7, 10 and 13 at race speed if possible, but no holding back on #1. easy on 2x200's in between interval is total elapsed time of 2:30, 3, 3:30 i held 2:15's on the 5 x 200 flys. college time was a 2:06. hey people! here's an aggie joke: how do you make a 200 flyer? take the 1500 swimmer and the 50 swimmer and have them train the 200 fly! no kidding! i would probably modify this set to 50's or do 10 x rounds, do the four fast as a 100/75/50/25 fly at true race speed, and easy 100's in between. I would focus more on drills, especially kicking drills, to create more lift and a balanced kick (ie, kick up as well as down. no one has trouble with the down. it's the up that usually isn't so good). You get the most bang for the buck here - so another way of agreeing with Fort - in other words, you don't have to get ANY stronger in the arms, but if are overall stronger in your legs, better lift, then you are able to hold the water better out in front and thus have a stronger, more efficient and effective pull. Oooooo....thanks for the ideas. I'd like to focus on the 100 fly one of these seasons, and this is good stuff.