The Butterfly Lane

Oooooo....thanks for the ideas. I'd like to focus on the 100 fly one of these seasons, and this is good stuff. I love chowmi's broken 100s as well. For more 100 fly advice, check this out: Training for the 100 fly? - U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums Disagree, James, I swim 95-100% all the time in practice.

Disagree, James, I swim 95-100% all the time in practice. That's fine...you can have your opinion too. You're a sprinter, I'm not. We're both happy. :applaud: Happy flyin' :bliss:

That's fine...you can have your opinion too. You're a sprinter, I'm not. We're both happy. :applaud: Happy flyin' :bliss: Just sayin' it can be done in practice. Even mid D types do all out AFAP swims. Check out Patrick's or Chris' blog or Tall Paul's workouts.

Just sayin' it can be done in practice. Even mid D types do all out AFAP swims. Check out Patrick's or Chris' blog or Tall Paul's workouts. Yep, totally agree. AFAP swims are a must for any type of swimmer.

Just sayin' it can be done in practice. Even mid D types do all out AFAP swims. Check out Patrick's or Chris' blog or Tall Paul's workouts. I do them too...I just can't do it that often with the amount of lane crowding and different ability levels in my team practices...and I hate having to go out and pay $$$ to go swim in the hot YMCA pool just to have a lane by myself. Our "team" practices or more of just a free for all, and I try to do what I can before others bombard my lane and start warming up themselves without and regard as to what I may have been doing already. Say what you want about that part...it's not going to change anything on how the others are. Our workout group has about 80 in it, but only about 10-15 of us actually compete, and of those that compete I don't have anyone of similar speed to train with either, so I just make do the best I can.

I would focus more on drills, especially kicking drills, to create more lift and a balanced kick (ie, kick up as well as down. no one has trouble with the down. it's the up that usually isn't so good). You get the most bang for the buck here - so another way of agreeing with Fort - in other words, you don't have to get ANY stronger in the arms, but if are overall stronger in your legs, better lift, then you are able to hold the water better out in front and thus have a stronger, more efficient and effective pull. To work on the "kick up," do you think it's helpful to kick while on your back (so that the "kick up" is a "kick down")? Do you think in general dolphin kicking on your back is a good way to train for fly kicking? I ask because a lot of people on my team kick on their back for fly kick, but it always seems a bit strange to me. So, I'm wondering now if there is a good reason for it, other than wanting more access to oxygen.

To work on the "kick up," do you think it's helpful to kick while on your back (so that the "kick up" is a "kick down")? Do you think in general dolphin kicking on your back is a good way to train for fly kicking? I ask because a lot of people on my team kick on their back for fly kick, but it always seems a bit strange to me. So, I'm wondering now if there is a good reason for it, other than wanting more access to oxygen. I'll be curious to see what chowmi says. But, for me, to train for fly, you should dolphin kick primarily on your stomach. I dolphin kick a ton on my back, but it doesn't seem to completely fix my up kick in fly, which is probably a weak spot for me as well. To work on this, I'll do shooters where I dolphin kick on my belly, back, left side, right side and do twirling shooters where I change position every two kicks. This helps you balance and kick in every direction in the water. I also find a monofin helps with kicking correctly. James, That sucks. It's hard to do fly in an overrun pool. If you can occasionally get a solo lane in the Y to do AFAP stuff, it would be worth it.

James, That sucks. It's hard to do fly in an overrun pool. If you can occasionally get a solo lane in the Y to do AFAP stuff, it would be worth it. Don't worry about it that much...I don't. When the others get in with me and do freestyle sets, I'll just swim with them and either do fly or IM to stay on the same interval rather than just running in to lap traffic which isn't fun either. The best part of my workouts is our cost to swim for the Masters group. The High School doesn't charge us even :2cents: to swim there during the school year, which is a big plus. So I deal with it, and seem to do pretty well.

There are some benefits to swimming fly in a crowded pool. You don't get to choose your intervals and you've got to go on short rest. You have a window of opportunity between the other swimmers and you have to grab it, even if you're still out of breath from the previous swim. To avoid collisions and/or get to clear water, you might have to take extra SDK's off the wall. For example, taking an unplanned 12 SDK's on the last 25 of a 75. If the other swimmers in the pool are generating lots of waves, you're occasionally going to get a faceful of water instead of a breath. That can and will happen in competition, so practice it! You don't need to worry about your times when practicing fly like this. Crowding adds at least 2 seconds per 50 fly in my experience. Just get the yards in and call it good. I swam a set of 50 flys in a situation like this yesterday. Short rest, long underwaters, choking on waves, slow times... I was dog tired by the end of it, but I got it done. :bed:

To work on the "kick up," do you think it's helpful to kick while on your back (so that the "kick up" is a "kick down")? Do you think in general dolphin kicking on your back is a good way to train for fly kicking? I ask because a lot of people on my team kick on their back for fly kick, but it always seems a bit strange to me. So, I'm wondering now if there is a good reason for it, other than wanting more access to oxygen. Yes...the up kick cycle in fly requires awareness and strength of your hamstrings and kicking on your back helps this...IF its not "lazy" kicking. I've always believed that fly is best trained at race pace. So short distance (25's and 50's really) at high speed and with fins helps reinforce proper body position and the kick cycle being discussed. I haven't swam a 100 fly in workout in 30 years....