Dara Torres-Amazing

It is not unreasonable to think that Dara would have owned the record book if she had not been anorexic in her late teens/early 20's. I would not compare Dara to any male swimmer: Sprinting for a man is about more about power, for women not so much. Dara did not pop off a 22 in the 50 as a 16 year old because she was strong. If she is *** feeding and doping that would be just sad. Elite athletes do not cheat for the money (at least it is low on the list). Having it or not having it neither absolves or proves anything (this has been the most useless issue to pop up in the thread).

I'm inclined to agree with the enigmatic whitebuffalo; although I agree with many other posters here too: I would like to believe Dara is clean, although I think her performance suggests otherwise. The distinction between the 100 and 50 is a good one. To rip off a fast 50 due to strength training and excellent technique is one thing; to stay ahead of the rest of the field on the last 25m of a 100 is another. One thing I'm curious about is how her training has changed over the years. Does anyone know what type of training she was doing 10-20 years ago? Was she a yardage hog? Has she recently subscribed to the "new school" of sprint training thought, exemplified by The Race Club type training philosophy? Just wondering. Even if this was true I'd have trouble believing that performance was clean, although I think its not completely impossible.

White Buffalo....... you will never convince those who just want to believe. Here's a timely article from today's Washington Post, written by Sally Jenkins, Lance biographer and Bonds hater. It's entitled, "Winning, Cheating Have Ancient Roots." She discusses the topic of legalizing performance enhancing drugs, but says it won't happen because people prefer "illusion to reality." Not to mention that it would give a serious edge to those with "boatloads" of money. www.washingtonpost.com/.../AR2007080202497.html

What is that flax seed oil supposed to do exactly? I know it's good for dry eye, but what else? From ESPN.com (December, 2004): Barry Bonds testified to a grand jury that he used a clear substance and a cream given to him by a trainer who was indicted in a steroid-distribution ring, but said he didn't know they were steroids, the San Francisco Chronicle reported Friday. Bonds told a U.S. grand jury that he used undetectable steroids known as "the cream" and "the clear," which he received from personal trainer Greg Anderson during the 2003 season. According to Bonds, the trainer told him the substances were the nutritional supplement flaxseed oil and a pain-relieving balm for the player's arthritis.

Why? Fort....Balco, MLB, NFL, NBA, Mandatory drug testing for high school football in Texas, Tour de France, a friend who saw first hand an elite masters swimmer using HGH, performances that as White Buffalo details just don't seem to make sense....I don't feel I've gotten cynical so much as just accepted that there is far more usage going on that we would like t believe and it seems to be growing.

A quote from The Australian News.... Even people 10 years younger than Torres will be delighted to learn her training program is dramatically different from that which took her to the Sydney Olympics. Her secret: less is more. She weighs less than when she competed in Sydney and she is swimming about 5.5km each morning, five days a week (half the workload of most elite sprinters). She also does four strength and conditioning sessions a week, three stretching sessions (which last two hours each) and has two massages. "The older I get, the less I do, the faster I go," Torres says. She is 4kg lighter than she was in 2000, having lost most of the muscle bulk she built then with heavy weightlifting. "I am lean now," she explains. "The strength work I do a lot is with the Swiss ball, working a lot of different muscles at once, working my core and rotation. I have abs you wouldn't believe. Because I don't have as much muscle, I think I swim higher in the water than I used to." Torres's results have drawn doping allegations, which she understands and is prepared to openly address. She faced those same insinuations in her previous groundbreaking comeback, so she knows they will resurface. She has asked US head coach Mark Schubert to organise extra drug testing, including blood testing, so she can answer the doubters. "It's too bad that people assume someone is taking drugs when they perform well, but I am getting tested frequently so there is no question about my performance," she says. One of the world's foremost swimming experts, Milt Nelms, does not question that Torres can be a better swimmer at 40 than she was at 20. He has watched his own partner, 1972 triple Olympic gold medallist Shane Gould, reproduce in her 40s what she did as a teenage wunderkind. Nelms, who has worked with Olympic champions Ian Thorpe and Natalie Coughlin, believes Torres will help push back the boundaries for athletes and weekend warriors. "The age thing is something we say and it's self-fulfilling," he says. "If you look at swimming, there's nothing really explosive about it, and if you have an innate ability it doesn't diminish that greatly (over time). "It's so much more about the nervous system, and what a 40-year-old person has is experience and physical intelligence, especially someone like Dara, who has taken care of herself and stayed active. Her two periods out of competition probably allowed her nervous system to restore itself from the impact of training. "Dara is physically gifted and very physically intelligent, and her capacity for work and self-discipline are exceptional. Even among professional athletes she's in the extraordinary class. She's one tough lady." Nicole Jeffery is a senior sports writer with The Australian.

I can verify that she's tiny in person. The people in line behind me were commenting on it too. She's certainly fit, of course, but there's no sign of any extra 20 lbs of muscle. Tiny? ROFLMAO. Anyone who's 5'11" with her statuesque physique is not "tiny." I don't think pure size is the only indicator of drug use though. Tracy: Beth McGee is awesome! Yes! :cheerleader: And she works hard. But her times, stellar though they are, illustrate the difference between an elite masters athlete and an elite world ranked USA athlete. There's just a gap. Beth isn't a "professional" either, of course. I'm sure she, like the rest of us, would be faster with personal strength and conditioning trainers and round the clock massages. Man, I could really use one right now. So "innate ability" doesn't diminish over time? That's rather vague. I would think "ability," just like other things, would diminish at least somewhat over time?

A quote from The Australian News.... She is 4kg lighter than she was in 2000, having lost most of the muscle bulk she built then with heavy weightlifting. She was signing autographs last night and I can verify that she's tiny in person. The people in line behind me were commenting on it too. She's certainly fit, of course, but there's no sign of any extra 20 lbs of muscle.

Anybody here ever see Beth McGee swim? She is swimming some fantastic times....she's fit and looks it....Hard work does pay off!

Great thread. Just a few thoughts: As a physician, I do not believe it can be done legally. Sorry, but the aging process does not discriminate. It's been said that the "science" of doping is so sophisticated now that the only ones who get caught are either careless or stupid. And finally, I guarantee there are Masters swimmers who are juiced. It's human nature.