Dara Torres-Amazing

Geez, when did we become so cynical? When did hard work, natural talent, great coaching and a passion for excellence get replaced by she must be cheating; as the explanation for performance? So far the only evidence of cheating has been that she is swimming fast. Not that she has added muscle mass or any other indications of chemical cheating. Look at her swim from last night and compare it to her swim 8 years ago. You will notice that she has improved her technique and has taken advantage of current swim suit technology. And as for the suggestion that athletes continue to be available for testing after retirement, I’m not sure if you know what is involved with out of competition testing, but the USADA is already overwhelmed. They have a tough enough time with testing at competitions. Out of competition testing is costly, random and in my opinion not very effective. Spending hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars to randomly test retired athletes seems like a fruitless effort. The probability of testing a retired athlete who will return to competition is very slight. And while we are pointing out possibilities, it is possible that Dara is an alien sent to earth to take over the swimming world. No; wait, this would belong in the horror movie thread. Occam's razor - All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best one. Talent and hard work pay off.

My suggestion, whenever a world class athlete announces that he or she is going to retire from their sport, they must continue to be tested or never be allowed to return to that sport. this is a bit extreme, I believe when Dara retired in 2000, she was convinced that was it, hence no comeback attempt in 2004. I believe Dara focused on her career and stayed in shape during those years then she shocked her self when she swam the 50 at the 2006 Masters Worlds, and quietly went about getting back in competition shape. Making another Olympic team is a great career move for her, I don't think Dara would be so motivated by financial gain that she'd juice. She grew up in a wealthy family, I believe her dad managed Wayne Newton. I'm sure she does fine with her career and I'm sure her husband isn't poor. I think Dara's hungry to see what she can do, this is probably her last hurrah. I'm sure there were times when she felt burned out, but I bet that right now swimming is fun for her. I'm curious to see how much faster she can go. You swim girl. Ande On another note, with the rapid rise of "Rejuvenation Centers" around the country I'm sure there are several to many masters swimmers who receive their "assistance." In no way am I accusing Dara or cheating. My post is simply to point out the possibilities. My mind disconnects when the reality that “no testing” is performed for those years she was retired. Essentially, she “could” have had her baby, and then began to get back in shape, and built her body back using hard work and the juice (or whatever she chose) and no one would know the difference. Then after her body had the opportunity to grow much stronger with the help of illegal substances, she could stop taking those substances and announce that she is “coming out of retirement” in her attempt to become the first woman swimmer to compete in five Olympic Games. All while testing again begins and she would be as clean as if she never took any illegal performance enhancing drugs. My suggestion, whenever a world class athlete announces that he or she is going to retire from their sport, they must continue to be tested or never be allowed to return to that sport. These long, long retirements (exactly like Dara’s) leave way to much room for illegal performance enhancing drugs to be used without detection. Let’s face the facts, she is a very talented swimmer and has been for years. She hosts many television programs and commentates for many news organizations and “if” she were to become the first woman to compete in five Olympic Games, huge amounts of money from endorsements are involved. The loop holes and potential monetary gain are way too much for me to be comfortable with her swim last night.

...and she's as strong as ever. That is the point of this debate.

Skip, Why do you care what I really think about Dara? After all, I am merely and average "John Smith" on deck. My opinion is not significant. John Probably the truest quote I have read on here in about 5 years! :drink:

Let's just say I have seen some "unnatural" looking 30, 40 and 50 year olds at meets during various National Championship. One in particular, I will not mention, but was literally glowing in the sun. That is usually a tell tale sign that they are doused in Coppertone, or on the juice according to a trainer I know who was with me that has dealt with it for many years. Even if they aren't if they are kicking my butt at meets, I need to use that as an excuse! :laugh2: Thanks for the sympathy on the back, it is hell dealing with it from time to time. Have had 4 surgeries. I guess I need to get my butt to more national meets and scope out the competition! I haven't seen any glowers. I do know some awesome looking 40-50ish athletes though ... they train a lot. I think Quicksilver said somewhere that elite 40-50 somethings look like they are in their late 20s from the neck down. Now if they'd go to those "rejuvenation centers" ande's speculating about, maybe they'd look good from the neck up too? ;) (4 surgeries? Can you still swim? Nerve damage --yikes. As for the muscle atrophy, have you looked in regenerative treatment? Keep fighting the good fight!)

I don't find it hard to believe that Dara can still sprint after all these years. She's 5'-11" tall, has the cardiovascular system of an uber athlete...and she's as strong as ever. We may not see middle distance swimmers going as fast as their early days...but a 50 or 100 is a very short race in terms of maximal sustained effort. When Gary Hall is still going strong in 10 years...do the torches and pitchforks come out as well?

In no way am I accusing Dara or cheating. My post is simply to point out the possibilities. My mind disconnects when the reality that “no testing” is performed for those years she was retired. Essentially, she “could” have had her baby, and then began to get back in shape, and built her body back using hard work and the juice (or whatever she chose) and no one would know the difference. Then after her body had the opportunity to grow much stronger with the help of illegal substances, she could stop taking those substances and announce that she is “coming out of retirement” in her attempt to become the first woman swimmer to compete in five Olympic Games. All while testing again begins and she would be as clean as if she never took any illegal performance enhancing drugs. My suggestion, whenever a world class athlete announces that he or she is going to retire from their sport, they must continue to be tested or never be allowed to return to that sport. These long, long retirements (exactly like Dara’s) leave way to much room for illegal performance enhancing drugs to be used without detection. Let’s face the facts, she is a very talented swimmer and has been for years. She hosts many television programs and commentates for many news organizations and “if” she were to become the first woman to compete in five Olympic Games, huge amounts of money from endorsements are involved. The loop holes and potential monetary gain are way too much for me to be comfortable with her swim last night. Pretty much my thoughts. Too bad she didn't ask for testing herself during her retirement and masters stint, thereby preempting some of the inevitable charges.

Instead of the criticism why don’t we all congratulate her. Because some of us don't fancy being taken for suckers. The whole business has an odor of the sea about it. No one has any proof one way or the other and in all likleyhood never will, so if you want to be Pollyannaish about it, fine--I am pretty sure that worked out for Pollyanna too. I am however intrigued by that impulse, since DRUGS! was pretty much my first thought on the matter. I find the entire thing implausible.

Wow...this thread is a very interesting read. For me, I'm perfectly happy to give Torres the benefit of the doubt given her long track record of achievement combined with the fact that she has never tested positive for any banned substance. My reasons are twofold: (1) Her story inspires me, and I don't want to deprive myself of that inspiration. Now, if there is clearcut evidence that she's doping, then I'll immediately change my view of her accordingly. But, if the best evidence is "C'mon, what are the odds she can swim that well?" - well, I'd like to believe she can swim that well - therein lies the inspiration! :) Am I drinking the Kool Aid - maybe. Even if I am, though - what harm is done? The only consequence is that I will have pushed myself further (and in my case, returned to swimming at all) because I believed her story. I think I can live with that consequence. (2) With all things being equal, I'd rather give an athlete the benefit of the doubt that their achievement is the result of profitable hard work. It seems much worse to me to wrongly suspect an athlete of cheating... if Torres, or anyone else, is found to be doping, then there will be plenty of time to retract the benefit of the doubt. That said, I also don't really care what anyone else thinks. I have no problem with people who want to be more suspicious or pessimistic. BTW: am I the only one who would be perfectly happy with some Olympic relay golds? I think I'd see that as a reasonable indicator of swimming success, myself. ;)

Evil One, I propose a modern day Billy Jean King...vs.. Bobby Riggs match up between you and Dara in the 100m free. It's the perfect male vs. female match up. I'll sell the tickets..... and laugh at your stroke the last 10 meters... :-) You can't let a girl beat you now. John Smith