Help My Flutter Kick is Horrible!

Kick from the hips/waist; pointed toes, straight legs. Thanks. Muppet. I need to work on this KICK FROM HIP thing. Not sure what exactly it is. But really straight legs? no knee bending at all?

you asked "How do you breathe?" (when you're doing flutter kick in streamline position, SFK) 1) develop your ability to do an entire length without a breath, without breaking streamline 2) if the above is not possible, here's 2 options take small hand scull up to a half breastroke stroke, breathe then get back in streamline position or drop one arm, keeping the other out front do a freestyle stroke, breathe then resume streamlining you could also flutter kick on your back ande Ande, When flutter kicking without a board, how do you breathe? I find that when I roll to the side to breathe, I lose my momentum. By the time I get to the other end (25y) I'm so out of breath that it takes 30 sec to a minute to recover enough to do another. I seem to do better with the back (obviously), *** and fly kick and don't have any problem breathing when doing those.

no do NOT kick with your legs perfectly straight when flutter kicking, in one part of the kick cycle there is a slight knee bend here's my attempt of describing what happens with one leg during a flutter kick cycle the upper leg goes down from the hip (slightly) and the knee bends up (slightly) then the upper leg reverses direction as lower leg fully extends downward then quickly pops back up for the next kick (the other leg is doing the opposite, toes should be pointed, but you're not straining to hold the point, it's just set in point position) your legs should be relaxed, and moving up and down rapidly you should feel water pressure on the top of your foot and your shins. (it's way better to watch and copy a good kicker than to follow this) work on improving feel for the water with your feet improve your distance per kick count how many kicks it takes you to kick a 25 the more flexible your feet and ankles are the better kicker you are likely to be, it helps to have big floppy feet. you can also do the "slap tap kick drill" to improve your kicking speed you do it by kicking with your feet out of the water, as soon as you feel your foot hit the water immediately reverse it you do this in 5 or 10 second bursts attempting to move your feet as fast you can hope this helps ande Thanks. Muppet. I need to work on this KICK FROM HIP thing. Not sure what exactly it is. But really straight legs? no knee bending at all?

no do NOT kick with your legs perfectly straight when flutter kicking, in one part of the kick cycle there is a slight knee bend here's my attempt of describing what happens with one leg during a flutter kick cycle the upper leg goes down from the hip (slightly) and the knee bends up (slightly) then the upper leg reverses direction as lower leg fully extends downward then quickly pops back up for the next kick (the other leg is doing the opposite, toes should be pointed, but you're not straining to hold the point, it's just set in point position) your legs should be relaxed, and moving up and down rapidly you should feel water pressure on the top of your foot and your shins. (it's way better to watch and copy a good kicker than to follow this) work on improving feel for the water with your feet improve your distance per kick count how many kicks it takes you to kick a 25 the more flexible your feet and ankles are the better kicker you are likely to be, it helps to have big floppy feet. you can also do the "slap tap kick drill" to improve your kicking speed you do it by kicking with your feet out of the water, as soon as you feel your foot hit the water immediately reverse it you do this in 5 or 10 second bursts attempting to move your feet as fast you can hope this helps ande Just came back from pool and experimented the flutter kick. Not sure if I did it correctly. It seemed quite hard to integrate a six beat into my swimming. When I just did the kicks, I can kick quite quickly and move forward. But it was another story when I tried to incorporate my kicks into my freestyle swimming. I think what I did was at most a four beat kick, not kicking quick enough. Need more practise. Another thing is, should my foot completely kick out of water surface, or just the heels slightly break the surface, or completely submerge in the water while swimming? My feeling was that: 1, if my foot completely kicks out of water surface, I need to exert very large force to keep my foot out of surface. 2, if my foot completely submerge in the water, I feel very strong water resistance force, which requires me to kick very hard to maintain the beat. In either way, I was forced to kick very hard and become fatigue very soon. 3, several times I felt relatively easy and comfort. I did not know if it was because my heels just slightly broke the surface( I cannot see them when I swam). Two possible reasons I can think of are: a, I did not kick deep enough as Muppet suggested. The water resistance therefore was less. b, I did kick deep enough. But my heels were out of water, which reduced the water resistance. Any thoughts?

bump for syd ande

Thanks Ande. I shall get onto those drills immediately. In fact I am going to the pool in 3 hours time and, already, I can't wait to try. I think I have a better idea now of how to kick i.e. from the hip (not from the knee) & with toes pointed. Is it okay for your legs to cross over when kicking? Quite frankly I have never seen any of the top swimmers do this and it is worrying me. Last week, on Tuesday, I went my whole 500 warm up without crossing my legs over and concentrated on a consistent side by side flutter kick. At first it felt very awkward and upset my entire rhythm. Later it got to feel a bit better but it was exhausting. I tried a sprint 50 with it but it slowed me down horribly. Am I giving up too quickly? Should I just perservere in the hope that I will eventually find the rhythm? Also what are your views on kicking with or without a board. I find holding a board unnatural and when I start swimming again I never kick like that anyway. Or do you still think it worth it to use the board to build up the muscles in the legs? I am glad you don't reccommend fins or "flippers" as I call them. They always give me a false sense of speed and then there is that terrible let down when you take them off and start swimming normally again. Do you not reccommend 'hand paddles' for the same reason? I use the hand paddles and I feel they have helped build up muscle but I don't use flippers and anyway they are not allowed at the pool I swim at. Finally, who in the world of swimming has a really good kick? The part I am most interested in is how to integrate the arm movements with the leg movements. Whose videos can I watch to help me with this? Thorpe, Hackett? I am much more of a visual person and so when people start to talk about hand entry, catch, etc my mind starts to 'mist' over. Thanks for all your help Ande. You are a star. How do you find the time to be a parent, swim train and coach others on the sideline? I am inspired! When you publish that book I will be first in line. Sincerely Syd

Congratulations 25.84 is your starting point keep following the plan I outlined at: forums.usms.org/showpost.php do this kick set each day: 8 x 25 flutter kick on 1:00 odds easy working on feel for the water with your feet and DPK (distance per kick) evens blazing fast like your life depended on it for time also work on your SDK do the same set do a 25 all out for time kick once a week let us know what those times are also work on 10 meter kicks and 15 meter kicks you will become a faster kicker good luck keep us posted Ande I have a result! With a push off the wall and four SDK's, body in the streamline position and kicking as if my life depended on it (as Ande suggested)! I went 25.84 for 25m. I did 5 of them and swam 3 easy 25's between each. 25.84 was my fastest time. It was also the last in the set. Ironically my slowest was the one I did with a dive: 27.62. It was the first one. Now I am not sure if that reflects very poorly on my dive or if it was because it was the first and I had not developed a 'feel' for the water yet. But I have to admit, even though my time was not great, it felt good and there was a certain exhilaration that I felt when I started to feel that water with my feet. Normally I hate kicking. Today it was a challenge and fun! Syd

I have a result! With a push off the wall and four SDK's, body in the streamline position and kicking as if my life depended on it (as Ande suggested)! I went 25.84 for 25m. I did 5 of them and swam 3 easy 25's between each. 25.84 was my fastest time. It was also the last in the set. Ironically my slowest was the one I did with a dive: 27.62. It was the first one. Now I am not sure if that reflects very poorly on my dive or if it was because it was the first and I had not developed a 'feel' for the water yet. But I have to admit, even though my time was not great, it felt good and there was a certain exhilaration that I felt when I started to feel that water with my feet. Normally I hate kicking. Today it was a challenge and fun! Syd

congratulations on your improvement your improvement is the result of learning how to kick fast, but you're just getting started, do the fast kick set 4 or 5 times per week test the very fast 25 kick for time once a week focus on becoming a fast kicker. Let's see how far you go with this syd's 25 m kick times 10) 09) 08) 07) 06) 05) 04) 03) 02) 01) June 28th, 2007 24.10 00) June 20th, 2007 25.84 you asked: "Are there any dryland exercises that would strengthen kicking muscles?" there's leg press, leg extension, leg curl, & jumps, but your big improvements are going to come from your work in the water. do some DPK 25's (distance per kick) where you concentrate on: 1) great streamline and body position 2) feeling the water with your feet and shins on each kick and 3) getting maximum distance and propulsion from each kick 4) count how many kicks it takes you to get across the pool, (count for your right leg then double the number) these are easy with lot's of rest 24.1 is nowhere near what you are capable of keep pushing, ALSO train and test your 25 SDK ande A week later and today I went 24.10 off a dive for 25m of flutter kick. I can't imagine that my legs have gotten that much stronger in a week so it must be my technique. Are there any dryland exercises that would strengthen kicking muscles? Riding a bike perhaps. Funny I don't really associate swimmers with large calf muscles - not like a bikers anyway. Is that because the kick is supposed to come from the hip? I must confess my legs ache like hell when I do these sprint sets and I am as out of breath as if I had swum a 50 at full pace. As a kid kicking was always rest time for me. I never realised it should be hard work as well. Thanks Ande! Syd

A week later and today I went 24.10 off a dive for 25m of flutter kick. I can't imagine that my legs have gotten that much stronger in a week so it must be my technique. Are there any dryland exercises that would strengthen kicking muscles? Riding a bike perhaps. Funny I don't really associate swimmers with large calf muscles - not like a bikers anyway. Is that because the kick is supposed to come from the hip? I must confess my legs ache like hell when I do these sprint sets and I am as out of breath as if I had swum a 50 at full pace. As a kid kicking was always rest time for me. I never realised it should be hard work as well. Thanks Ande! Syd