Help My Flutter Kick is Horrible!

Originally posted by ande I've written about this in Swim Faster Faster you need to STOP USING FINS STOP saying you can't kick fast begin by improving your 25 speed time yourself for an all out 25 kick from a dive in streamline position with no board find out where you are then time yourself once a week or every other week to train and improve start doing sprint kick sets with lots of rest between each one Like 4 x (3 x 25 swim easy on :45 or 1:00, on 25 FAST for time) YOU'VE really GOT TO GO FOR IT on the fast kick. Pretend it's a LIFE or DEATH MATTER, put for that kind of effort. pay attention to your times and work on improving them from one week to the next I swear this WILL WORK Also you might not have that great of a toe point it helps to stretch your ankles / feet and improve your foots flexibility. generally the more flexible your foot is the faster you can kick once you have speed then start working on speed endurance 50's, 75's and 100's come up to austin some time and I'll work with you in person or if I ever go down to the coast we can meet at the aransas pass pool Ande, I am going to take you up on that offer (even though it wasn't for me!) this summer. I am still trying to build my legs back since surgery and need someone who actually knows to watch and give me feedback. As we get closer to the summer (i.e. make plans for our trip to Lake LBJ) I will get in contact with you Good luck this weekend...

Thanks Ande. If I get the chance this summer, I will definitely take you up on your offer. I have a trial at the end of April so things are really nuts right now. One quick question: your workout says swim easy, but I assume you meant kick? I have been adding a practice where I do the following kick sets these past 4 practices. 20 x 25 with 10 seconds rest. I have already gotten my 50 time down to 1:09 from 1:20. But that isn't an all out kick. It is a sustained kick going workout speeds. Then I do a 10 x 50 (kick 25 fast, swim 25 easy) All of my kicking I do with a center mount snorkel in stream line so that I focus as much on my kick as possible. Thanks again for all of your help. Maybe one day this old breststroker will finally develope a decent freestyle.

I've written about kicking in Swim Faster Faster Kicking fast is the key to swimming fast. forums.usms.org/showthread.php You need to STOP USING FINS STOP saying and believing you can't kick fast The big problem is the coach assigns a kick set, the "bad kickers" move to the back of the lane, then proceed to plod through the kick set. (I used to be a bad kicker then I became one of the best kickers on the team.) Begin by improving your 25 kicking speed Time yourself for an all out 25 kick from a dive in streamline position with no board find out where you are Then time yourself once a week or every other week Train and Improve Start doing sprint kick sets with lots of rest between each fast kick do sets like: 4 x (3 x 25 swim easy on :45 or 1:00, followed by one 25 FAST kick for time) YOU'VE really GOT TO GO FOR IT on the fast kick. Pretend it's a LIFE or DEATH MATTER, put forth THAT kind of effort. Pay attention to your times and work on improving them from one week to the next. (Also do half length sprints, learn how to: 1) move your feet fast and 2) catch and feel water with your feet ) I swear this WILL WORK You'll see remarkable improvements in your kick. Also you might not have that great of a toe point it helps to stretch your ankles / feet and improve your feet flexibility. generally the more flexible your foot is the faster you can kick once you have speed then start working on speed endurance start doing 50's, 75's and 100's ALSO Start learning how to use your new and improved kick when you swim, especially swimming. Come up to Austin some time and I'll work with you in person or if I ever go down to the coast we can meet at the Aransas Pass pool or where you practice. Ande Originally posted by Blue Horn I am slow, and when I mean slow, I mean slow. I can do a 26 sec 50 with fins, but without I come in just under 1:20! I think a big part of it is just taking the fins off and doing a lot of kick sets to learn to feel the water better with my feet. I have a good breaststroke kick so I don't think my problem is an overly weak pair of legs, although they could be in better shape. Also, myankles are fairly flexible as I can point my toes and make my feet bend backwards past an even position with my shins. However, I do think that I need to loosen up my ankles when I kick. I feel like I get more out of my kick for those brief moments when I allow my ankles to snap back and forth with my kick. I think I actually need to relax more to kick faster as weird as that sounds. I suppose the answer to my question is that I simply need to take of the fins and do kick set after kick set until I learn to feel the water better with my feet and become more efficient.

congratulations keep tracking it you've got a LOOONG way to go You'll be making remarkable improvements for weeks if not months ande Originally posted by Blue Horn Thanks Ande. If I get the chance this summer, I will definitely take you up on your offer. I have a trial at the end of April so things are really nuts right now. One quick question: your workout says swim easy, but I assume you meant kick? I have been adding a practice where I do the following kick sets these past 4 practices. 20 x 25 with 10 seconds rest. I have already gotten my 50 time down to 1:09 from 1:20. But that isn't an all out kick. It is a sustained kick going workout speeds. Then I do a 10 x 50 (kick 25 fast, swim 25 easy) All of my kicking I do with a center mount snorkel in stream line so that I focus as much on my kick as possible. Thanks again for all of your help. Maybe one day this old breststroker will finally develope a decent freestyle.

I have noticed that the more I do of these kick sets the more I learn to feel the water with my feet and the more I relax my legs. I will try to do an all out kick in the next few days and set a base like ande said by diving and kicking for 25. Thanks for all of your encouragement.

Blue Horn - tell us about your progress ! Right now my barefoot flutter kick for a 25y full blast on a board is about a minute and I'm wrecked at the end. That includes a long streamlined glide off the wall pushoff until I slow to "kicking speed". Without the board, its worse as breathing stops all forward progress. My ankle flexibility is good and I can hyperextend my knees 10 degrees. I have relatively big feet, women's size 11W, and relatively long legs for my height. I have been trying to figure out the kick for 15 years. That includes some years when I was in good condition as well as now. I am guessing that part of "good kicking" is just the geometry of the feet and legs. I have big lower legs and ankles and a high arched foot, which I theorize is not as good as thin lowerlegs and ankles with a flatter foot top. Even though my feet are large, when I point my toes it doesn't really extend the leg that much. Any merit to the theory ?

Ok, I did a dive and all out kick for 25 yards and hit 24. During my work out I did 4 x ( 5 x 25 on 1:00 last one all out with centermount snorkel in stream line) I held 35 on my regular kick lap and on my all out lap I was hiting 27. I am starting to feel the water now and I AM ACTUALLY GOING SOMEWHERE! Hopefully I will keep making these types of improvements over the next month or so. Thanks again.

Originally posted by nkfrench Blue Horn - tell us about your progress ! Right now my barefoot flutter kick for a 25y full blast on a board is about a minute and I'm wrecked at the end. That includes a long streamlined glide off the wall pushoff until I slow to "kicking speed". Without the board, its worse as breathing stops all forward progress. My ankle flexibility is good and I can hyperextend my knees 10 degrees. I have relatively big feet, women's size 11W, and relatively long legs for my height. I have been trying to figure out the kick for 15 years. That includes some years when I was in good condition as well as now. I am guessing that part of "good kicking" is just the geometry of the feet and legs. I have big lower legs and ankles and a high arched foot, which I theorize is not as good as thin lowerlegs and ankles with a flatter foot top. Even though my feet are large, when I point my toes it doesn't really extend the leg that much. Any merit to the theory ? You might want to try kicking with a centermount snorkel in the stream line position. I really takes your focus of of everything but the kick. At least it has for me.

OK great Do the kick set at least 3 x a week Start a chart to track your best performances ie: 25 sprint times 03/04/06 :24 When you go under 20 for a 25 kick start testing 50's as well When you go under 45 for a 50 kick start testing 75's and 100's you can also test different kinds of kicking fly with and without a board, belly, back, or side *** with and with out indicate if your start was from a push or a dive, if from a dive was it from a roll start or coaches go did you time it or someone else? Keep us posted Ande Originally posted by Blue Horn Ok, I did a dive and all out kick for 25 yards and hit 24. During my work out I did 4 x ( 5 x 25 on 1:00 last one all out with centermount snorkel in stream line) I held 35 on my regular kick lap and on my all out lap I was hiting 27. I am starting to feel the water now and I AM ACTUALLY GOING SOMEWHERE! Hopefully I will keep making these types of improvements over the next month or so. Thanks again.

i just updated my original reply and added more info Ande