Help My Flutter Kick is Horrible!

Amazing Syd showing great improvement keep woking on it. I could never kick for speed. I was dead last all my life when it came to kicking until I started using the dolphin kick. I used to race the sprinters for a 50, me using the dolphin kick and they used the Crawl (not freestyle) and would beat them.

Ande, I just read this whole thread and am very excited about trying your suggestions. I have always been a very slow kicker, in fact I'm all ARM's my feet just drag behind me, they move but to not propel me through the water. I have a problem with my legs cramping, and this has been long-standing, 20 years plus. Even when I was in my 20's when a practice was tough, I would always end-up cramping. My coaches get puzzled, trying to figure it out... more electrolytes, banana's pears, etc... nothing really has made much of a difference, I have just sort of accepted that this is the way my body is. But now (after reading this thread) I'm starting to think that maybe my leg cramps are because I have never built up those muscles and I have just dragged my leg's around and when I am really tried (from a hard practice) that when I try to kick, I then cramp because those are my weakest muscle. I guess the only why to verify this is to be very diligent about trying to strengthen my kick, measure my kick times (and incidents of cramping) over time. What do you think?

hey emyrold, glad you enjoyed this thread i hope it helps you become a faster kicker i'm not sure why you're cramping might be because you're pointing your toes too hard might be a chemical balance thing i sometimes cramp at the end of practice sometimes I feel a cramp coming on and can avoid it getting worse last cramp I had was several weeks ago when I was swimming a hard 200 bk for time ande Ande, I just read this whole thread and am very excited about trying your suggestions. I have always been a very slow kicker, in fact I'm all ARM's my feet just drag behind me, they move but to not propel me through the water. I have a problem with my legs cramping, and this has been long-standing, 20 years plus. Even when I was in my 20's when a practice was tough, I would always end-up cramping. My coaches get puzzled, trying to figure it out... more electrolytes, banana's pears, etc... nothing really has made much of a difference, I have just sort of accepted that this is the way my body is. But now (after reading this thread) I'm starting to think that maybe my leg cramps are because I have never built up those muscles and I have just dragged my leg's around and when I am really tried (from a hard practice) that when I try to kick, I then cramp because those are my weakest muscle. I guess the only why to verify this is to be very diligent about trying to strengthen my kick, measure my kick times (and incidents of cramping) over time. What do you think?

Ande, you posted: 2) feeling the water with your feet and shins on each kick . I puzzled over this one for a while because I just couldn't feel the water on my shins at all. For the most part my shins were submerged and it was only my foot and occassionally the back of my thigh that broke the surface. Then I realised I had to be in a perfect streamline position for this to happen: arms stretched right out in front, right hand over left, whole body pointing forward, head tucked under the arms and chin touching the chest. This forces the bum up and, all of a sudden, hey presto, the shins cleared the water. Yesterday I did 23.59 for 25m of flutter kick and that was off the wall without a dive. I did 22.29 for the same distance of SDK. Syd

How important is the kick??? I think not very important.

Ande, I just read this whole thread and am very excited about trying your suggestions. I have always been a very slow kicker, in fact I'm all ARM's my feet just drag behind me, they move but to not propel me through the water. I have a problem with my legs cramping, and this has been long-standing, 20 years plus. Even when I was in my 20's when a practice was tough, I would always end-up cramping. My coaches get puzzled, trying to figure it out... more electrolytes, banana's pears, etc... nothing really has made much of a difference, I have just sort of accepted that this is the way my body is. But now (after reading this thread) I'm starting to think that maybe my leg cramps are because I have never built up those muscles and I have just dragged my leg's around and when I am really tried (from a hard practice) that when I try to kick, I then cramp because those are my weakest muscle. I guess the only why to verify this is to be very diligent about trying to strengthen my kick, measure my kick times (and incidents of cramping) over time. What do you think? I think you might have hit the nail on the head Emyrold. I have suffered from exactly the same problem of cramping. It is particularly bad towards the end of a training session and always happens when I am pushing off the wall to sprint. Perhaps it is the action of straightening the legs and the tensioning of the muscles when I point my toes, but, whatever, it is damn painful and usually puts and end to the practice then and there. However, I must tell you I haven't cramped in about 2 months now and, recently, my workouts have increased a lot (so if anything I would have expected more cramping). I put it down to two things. 1. For the last two months I have taken a bottle of sports drink (here in Taiwan the brand I like is Supau) to the pool with me each time. This was on the advice of an old man who had been watching me swim and cramp up. It is important to start hydrating BEFORE you even get into the pool. I take drinks at regular intervals throughout my practice now. 2. Recently, on the advice of Ande I have really been practicing my kicking and hence strengthened the muscles in my legs. It now takes a lot longer for them to be tired and hence to cramp up. My flutter kick times are steadily improving and so are my sdk's. I encourage you to do the practice sets Ande suggests and post your times up here. I, for one, would be very interested to hear of your progress. Syd

congratulations syd you're continuing to improve syd's 25 m kick times 10) 09) 08) 07) 06) 05) 04) 03) 02) july 3rd 23.59; SDK 22.29 01) June 28th, 2007 24.10 00) June 20th, 2007 25.84 Ande, you posted: 2) feeling the water with your feet and shins on each kick . I puzzled over this one for a while because I just couldn't feel the water on my shins at all. For the most part my shins were submerged and it was only my foot and occassionally the back of my thigh that broke the surface. Then I realised I had to be in a perfect streamline position for this to happen: arms stretched right out in front, right hand over left, whole body pointing forward, head tucked under the arms and chin touching the chest. This forces the bum up and, all of a sudden, hey presto, the shins cleared the water. Yesterday I did 23.59 for 25m of flutter kick and that was off the wall without a dive. I did 22.29 for the same distance of SDK. Syd

Hi Emyrold, nice to hear from you 22 is a good starting point get someone to time you with a watch get your time in 10ths of a second tenths matter especially when your rate of improvement slows down you don't need to post your training times just post your test kick, when you blast a 25 kick at the end of each week ande Syd, Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I have been drinking a lot of electrolytes, eating pears and banana's and it seemed to help a little. But I think the real improvement may come from strengthening my legs, I have never really focussed on them and this will be the first. Ande, Thanks for your feedback as well. Here are my times from tonight. 25 yard pool, slow lanes 7 and 8 do not have a starting block so I just dove from the side and into a streamline. 22 seconds **but I just have a good dive and streamline. here are some times over a longer period tonight. They are push off the wall, turnover onto my back, streamline and kick to the wall.... 10 x 50 (25 fast kick "timed", 25 easy swim, 30 seconds rest) 1) 28 2) 30 3) 32 4) 30 5) 31 ** extra 60 seconds rest after this one... 6) 28 7) 32 8) 33 9) 32 10) 32 5 x 25 fast kick with 15 second rest 1) 34 2) 35 3) 34 4) 34 5) 36 **done, leg's gone, cramping setting in....

Syd, Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I have been drinking a lot of electrolytes, eating pears and banana's and it seemed to help a little. But I think the real improvement may come from strengthening my legs, I have never really focussed on them and this will be the first. Ande, Thanks for your feedback as well. Here are my times from tonight. 25 yard pool, slow lanes 7 and 8 do not have a starting block so I just dove from the side and into a streamline. 22 seconds **but I just have a good dive and streamline. here are some times over a longer period tonight. They are push off the wall, turnover onto my back, streamline and kick to the wall.... 10 x 50 (25 fast kick "timed", 25 easy swim, 30 seconds rest) 1) 28 2) 30 3) 32 4) 30 5) 31 ** extra 60 seconds rest after this one... 6) 28 7) 32 8) 33 9) 32 10) 32 5 x 25 fast kick with 15 second rest 1) 34 2) 35 3) 34 4) 34 5) 36 **done, leg's gone, cramping setting in....

There is some good advice in this thread. I've been working seriously on my kick for the last two months now. At my club pretty much nobody can actually do the kick sets without using fins, but I'm determined to become the 2nd person in the pool who can do them. To me, using fins is the wimp's option, all good swimmers seem to have a good kick, so I figure if I want to be a good swimmer I need a good kick. To be able to do the club sets I need to be able to do, for example, 5 x 100m kick on 2:00. Last night I did some fairly easy 25m kick lengths, focusing on technique, and gradually speeded up to full speed. Then I did a couple of 4 x 25m kick on 60, my fastest 25m was 20.09 (from a push off). I'm perhaps cheating a little in that I do about 10 dolphin kicks before starting my flutter kick, but I figure this is good training in itself anyway. I was expecting to be too tired to do much more kick after that, but I started a set of 4 x 100m kick on 2:30 anyway, and somehow managed to hold 1:55 for each one, my previous best being 1:58 for each one. I think some of this was due to following the advice to feel the water on my shins and try to get propulsion from them. I think I still have a long road ahead to be able to do 5 x 100m kick on 2:00, but I do think it's worth it. I did a 200m free PB last weekend, going 2:09.79 compared to my previous PB of 2:10.97, and I think the stronger kick helped me to do that. I don't believe the people who say kick doesn't matter, all good 200m swimmers look like they have an outboard motor attached to their legs with a powerful kick for the whole distance.