The Butterfly Lane

About the only part where swimmj and I disagree is the last point. It is true that you have more room by yourself...but I often lack the self-discipline to do hard fly sets when training alone. If I announce to my lane-mates or coach that I am doing a set fly, I feel some pressure to complete the task even as the pain comes. When I am by myself, it is too easy to rationalize cutting the set short or decreasing the amount of fly ("my HR sure is pretty high, I think I've already done a lot today, etc"). But others may be less wimpy than I. I agree that having people in your lane helps a lot more on a fly set. It's even better if your lane mates are also having to struggle through the same set. I think all the difficulties in swimming fly sets in a lane full of people (the choppy wake, lapping slower swimmers, banging arms on your outsweep, etc) all make for a "worst case scenario". I just think to myself, at least in the 200 fly I wont have all these damn waves to swim through!

Ahalee: thanks for the tip compilation! At the start of this year I got a pair of the aquasphere fins and they weigh almost nothing compared to most fins, so are more convenient to lug around, and they are made of a very soft almost foam like material and are the first fins I've had that I haven't had any problems with abrasion with. For anyone with fin abrasion problems these are worth a try. Last week I was in Montreal and met "SolarEnergy" from this forum and learned quite a bit. One thing I was amazed by was how flexible ankles can be, and how inflexible mine were! It made me wonder whether differences in kicking technique might be caused by differences in ankle flexibility, and whether fins might be a different experience for those with and without flexible ankles. It seems logical that good ankle flexibility provides forward propulsion with a much smaller kick amplitude. Basic physics would say that the downbeat of the kick stops being propulsive once there are no surfaces with a backward facing component, so unless you can point your feet past 180 degrees your downbeat stops giving forward propulsion when it reaches horizontal, and in reality the forward component becomes very small well before that. Perhaps this is why swimmers with inflexible ankles, when given a kickboard naturally gravitate toward a large from-the-knee dolphin kick?

12x200 fly LCM at least once a week in the summer :afraid: ! :roids:?

So I just finished my first year of competition after two years of solo lap swimming. I'd like to swim more fly since I got 5th at State with a 33 low 50 fly (age 55-59). I know my form has opportunity for improvement & I think my coach can help me with that. Any thought on cross-training or my solo workout swims? I die in the last 10-15 yards. I'm averaging 12-13k per week in practice. Great advice above. I am just getting back into swimming (several months) and have been working a lot on Fly (I am working on all strokes to hopefully swim 200 IM, but I swim some fly every day and I'll be racing 50 fly). My point is, I have a beginner's perspective. I like to swim a 200 drill, resting a little each 50 of: 50 kick, 50 right arm, 50 left arm, 50 L, L, R, R, full, full. Doing this every workout for the last three months, one thing I learned is that fly requires a really strong core. (ie what burns in these sets is my abdomen, from ribs right through to backside) Another thing I learned is that you can improve your fly without doing a ton of full stroke work, at least until you are in 'butterfly shape'. (This set is combination of things I remember from my youth and SolarEnergy's posts here) I have gone from almost dying on a 25 to being able to do a clean 75 maintaining my stroke rate (pretty close anyway).

Ahelee, as always, you rock. Thanks for sharing the tips with us! Thanks to those who shared if/how/when you use fins. I've always been of the mind to modify workouts until I can swim or kick them without equipment, but maybe I will give fins a try and test the results. When you use fins with fly, make sure you work on driving forward and don't use them to get out of the water much further than you need to. You don't need to have your belly button out of the water to breath - and for many, that is a temptation. I use fins with fly some, but find they will support some lazy habits that swimming fly without will not. So I recommend some of each.

Question for the fliers – do you ever use fins when doing longer fly sets? Have you found them to help your endurance? I'm with Chris & Fort on this one ... Like Chris I NEVER use fins with fly. I do not like that it changes my timing. I do kick fly with fins on occassion. Like Fort I do not do long fly sets. Usually not more than a 75 straight and rarely more than 200 at a time (as in 4 x 50 fly). I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the 50 fly. I am on hiatus from the 100. I pretend the 200 does not exist. My favorite tool for fly is the snorkel. I use it for drills all the time. That way I can focus on the drill and not worry about the breath. I do a ton of kicking with the snorkel LCM in the summer ... good stuff.

Ahelee, I'll be living in the Breaststroke Lane :bliss:, but dropping in on the Butterfly Lane for future reference. I'm focusing just on breaststroke for now, but plan on adding butterfly in competition, next year. So, thanks for taking the time to post all those great tips! :applaud: I pasted them into a Word Doc to refer back to on a regular basis. :D THANKS! Elaine

Ahelee, as always, you rock. Thanks for sharing the tips with us! Thanks to those who shared if/how/when you use fins. I've always been of the mind to modify workouts until I can swim or kick them without equipment, but maybe I will give fins a try and test the results.

If you have not read it, a short story about Greg Shaw's training for his 200 fly world record, can be read here: www.masters-athlete.com/.../487.cfm I have started doing more sets with different amounts of drill/fly and I think it has helped. I will know more after Atlanta.

YES this is what we're hoping to avoid. Been there - done that.