Dara Torres-Amazing

From the NYT article...The results have been striking. Torres’s muscles have grown longer and leaner, with the exception of those in her back and shoulders, which have thickened. She carries 150 pounds on her 6-foot frame, down from 160 in 2000. Her reaction time off the blocks has improved, and she is more efficient in the water. 10 pounds is an extreme change in body type? Are longer and leaner muscles typically the result of HGH usage? This cycling magazine article, I would be interested to see if the soap eliminates traces in urine and blood or only urine.

There are cheaters in sport and we can't weed them out if we stick our heads in the sand and not question/debate phenomenal performances. Syd, I have an opinion, I'm entitled to it and entitled to express it..... Deal with it!

Its been a long time since I've looked in on this thread. Its impressive how polarizing this issue has become. Also, how much energy is invested in staking out positions that can neither be confirmed nor refuted. Skepticism is both healthy and understandable. Negative tests really don't mean much. What I am much more interested in is the alternative hypothesis: if she isn't cheating, what is she doing DIFFERENTLY that could account for her performance? I do recall that one of Ande's tip's suggest we change SOMETHING to get different results. I doubt that spending less time in the pool (relative to collegiate standards) and spending more time on core strengthening and resistance training is all that unique among master's athletes. From reading the NYTimes article, its clear that her nearly constant use of massage therapists is very unique; who among us could afford TWO full time therapists? I have no idea if this can be the critical factor. I'm sorry if there has been thoughtful discussion on this topic, but I wasn't willing to review all preceding posts to find it.

Personally, I don't think a "personal opinion" requires evidentiary substantiation. In a legal sense perhaps you are right. But an opinion like goggles' is, if not slanderous,at the very least, hurtful. I think if goggles wants to express negative opionions then some sort of explanation is not unwarranted. This is a public forum where everyone expresses their personal opinions all the time. Someone could have "doubts" based solely on the uniqueness of the achievement and the seemingly universal practice of "cheating" in many sports. Not necessarily tantamount to "insinuation." That view's as equally valid as someone believing Torres is just phenomenally talented and employs superior and novel training tactics. I quite agree but there is a qualitative difference between the view that she is phenomenally talented and the view that she is potentially a cheater. Once again, I just think that if people are prepared to make personal opinions public then in all good nature they should be prepared to present at least a little evidence to back them up. Any less and we could run the risk of turning debate into a slandering match of personal opinion volleys. If you're talking "personal opinion." When it comes to meets and competing, all that matters is postitive tests. Couldn't agree with you more on this one, and, quite frankly, until I see any positive test results I believe in her. Syd

Is it against the rules for masters swimmers to use performance enhansing drugs?Yes. These FINA rules apply to all athletes. At this time testing of Masters athletes has not been implemented. But just because FINA is not testing Masters does not make it legal, right or fair.

It's about cheating, lying and ethics John Smith I disagree with you but am bowing out of this discussion. Paul

Unfortunately it becomes about money, glory, etc. instead of competition. Bingo. At least the money part, or even the perceived money. Paul

Is there a list of banned substances for Masters Swimming? If not how do we have a rule against banned substances? Also, if they don't test, how can it be illegal.The rules and list of banned substances can be found on the FINA web site www.FINA.org . The USMS rule book does not have specific reference to doping control and banned substances; however as members of FINA we are bound by FINA rules. And just because they don’t test Masters does not make it legal. Similarly, when the police are not out patrolling a street, it is still illegal to drive 120 in a 30 MPH zone.

Hi Paul, Sorry to get off topic for a moment...but I have a question... Since most masters swimmers get in around 4 days a week, how do you see the training schedule being set up in terms of aerobic versus speed work? Does one do mostly base training during the first two months of the season...and then stick with high intensity sets for the duration of the year (another 4 months)? If everything is done at race pace, does that work well for someone gearing up for anything beyond the sprint distances? I agree with you on the race preparation. As the saying goes, failure to prepare, is preparing for failure. Taking a dive off the blocks after every practice is the only way to get good at them. And simulated races once a week is very helpful. I appreciate your thoughts given how well your short course season went a couple of years ago. Quicksilver & Tom, As we've on this forum many times...the idea of a "magic bullet" for everyone simply doesn't exist. In my opinion so much of how we train should be dictated by how we feel eack day...for me the idea of hamering away when I feel so broken down simply doesn't work...I get out and take a rest day, or back off and go to the back of the lane and make adjustments to ensure that I'm trying to maintain perfect technique. This may or may not work for everyone and I'd bet that McConica, Baker, etc. would very much disagree...but if I was Dennis' coach I certainly would have had him rest for more than 3 days for Worlds last year (same with Boatwright)! As for how to set up a training cycle with 4 days a week available let me give you an idea how I will prep for Austin starting December 1st: - Approx. 5 month/20 weeks cycle s follows: 1) 7 weeks of high aerobic base training mainly from 3x a week spin classes or riding, 2-3x a week in the water swimming no more than about 3000m (I train for the 200 so most workouts are middle distance but even in this phase do 2-6 starts after practive 1-2x a week and some speed work (fast 25's no breath after practice to ekkp up tempo "feel"), one of these days will probably be playing water polo, yoga 2x a week, weights 1x a week. 2) 6 weeks of higher intensity swimming, short rest intervals, broken swims, meet every weekend that I can find one. Keep cycling/swimming 2x a week, same number of days of yoga/weights but move to more dynamic work; plyo's, stability balls, etc. 3) 4 weeks of high quality race prep wokouts, lots of tempo work, power work (fins and paddles, bungee's, power racks)....same schedule of cycle/yoga/weights. Start turn focus using running dives into pool into turns to simulate race speed. 4) 3 weeks of "taper": stop lifting, stop cycling, yoga 3x a week, lots of quality swims keeping yardage the same for the first 7 days with more rest, the last 14 days begin to lower yardage ech workout, if feeling good get in 2-3 very fast swims with lots of longer (300-600 yard swims) hypoxic recovery (I usually use a snorkel), the last week I stay off stairs if at all possible, no more starts, high qulity 25's no breath and lots of drill work....If i've done my job I've "banked" evrything and now is the time to relax and rest and TRUST thatI'm ready.....then see what happens!

the majority of competitive masters swimmers overtrain and focus to much time on volume and not enough in quality race prep training... Starts is probably the most neglected thing....people wait to practice them the week before a meet rather than do them at every practice then STOP doing them a week before the meet to rest the legs. I would encourage everyone who is interested in competition to really change things up for one 5-6 month training cycle and see what happens. If you can overcome the mental side of reducing Additionally and trusting your training and REALLY resting you might be surprised at the results. Hi Paul, Sorry to get off topic for a moment...but I have a question... Since most masters swimmers get in around 4 days a week, how do you see the training schedule being set up in terms of aerobic versus speed work? Does one do mostly base training during the first two months of the season...and then stick with high intensity sets for the duration of the year (another 4 months)? If everything is done at race pace, does that work well for someone gearing up for anything beyond the sprint distances? I agree with you on the race preparation. As the saying goes, failure to prepare, is preparing for failure. Taking a dive off the blocks after every practice is the only way to get good at them. And simulated races once a week is very helpful. I appreciate your thoughts given how well your short course season went a couple of years ago.