Dara Torres-Amazing

pwolf66, Of course these are all elite gifted athletes, however that is not what is being disputed here. The issue is "the edge". Are these athletes lying by taking drugs in order to get "the edge" on their competitors (as with Marion Jones) or are they the producing a real and level performance. Are they effectively "stealing" World Records records, or do they deserve them. It's about cheating, lying and ethics John Smith

What Dara is doing and teams like The Race Club as well as a few others in masters swimming is recognizing that time spent in the water should be high quality, race pace and a focus on perfect technique...aerobic base training is better attained thru things like spin classes. Chris Carmichael was recently interviewed and said the biggest mistake recreational athletes with limited time do is low level aerobic work...given limited time he recommends extremely high intensity practice....try telling that to the soccer mom/dad you see on the elliptical at the gym every morning with the level set at 5! Additionally the lack of attention to flexibility amongst our peers is staggering. Its funny that each year at nationals I talk to at least a half dozen swimmers who STARTED stretching the week before the meet and pulled something...even more get injured because they have done nothing in this area then attempt to go 100% effort in multiple events over multiple days and staring something. Starts is probably the most neglected thing....people wait to practice them the week before a meet rather than do them at every practice then STOP doing them a week before the meet to rest the legs. I would encourage everyone who is interested in competition to really change things up for one 5-6 month training cycle and see what happens. If you can overcome the mental side of reducing Additionally and trusting your training and REALLY resting you might be surprised at the results. I stand corrected about how much of the Master's community approaches their training. It seems as though the ideas of high intensity training and core work are well represented on the forums. Paul, you obviously see and know about a large cross-section of Master's habits. It seems there is a lot for us to learn. If not just from Dara, but from many of the prominent posters who advocate for high-intensity work. Which of course, begs the question again: what's the edge? Lots of stretching/massage? Focus and preparation? Or doing everything right, with an obsessive style?

pwolf66, It's about cheating, lying and ethics John Smith Unfortunately it becomes about money, glory, etc. instead of competition. A few posts ago I read a few times "innocent until proven guilty". That is incorrect, you are PRESUMED innocent until proven guity. Many people just don't presume she is innocent. The fact that they get shot down by some on here for giving their OPINION is not right. I welcome people's opinions, just because they are based on experience and not science doesn't make a lot of difference. The folks who have given their opinions on here have experienced a lot, were (are) elite level swimmers, train hard and smart, etc. When they don't call out other swimmers for opinions of cheating doesn't mean they don't think there are other cheaters out there. I am sure there are plenty of those "chemically enhancing", it is not hard to do. I don't think it is cheating anyway, since there is no testing in Masters Swimming. P.S. Paul, after the holidays and my shoulder feels better, I want to start a training program with you. What do you think? I can be your guinea pig to see if your training idea is worth any merit. It works, and you will take Total Immersion down! P.S.S. I won't do any roll starts! :rofl:

Check out this link pertaining to exercise physiology: www.nytimes.com/.../22best.html BTW, I thought this was a discussion forum, not a court of law. Although lately there has been talk of retaining legal counsel on another thread.

Is it against the rules for masters swimmers to use performance enhansing drugs?

I think you swim too fast. I accuse you of cheating. You have passed all tests required. How can you prove that you are honest?

Syd I agree with you that my comment "Personally I have my doubts" was neither constructive nor informative. It was merely an expression of personal opinion, which I assume is allowed. The first point I was trying to make was that to have your blood drawn for more intense analysis should be not taken as proof of anything. Because juicers are usually one step ahead of the testers we can only rely on circumstancial factors to form our opinions, so when someone puts in a superhuman performance or whose times drop substantially over a short period of time it is only human nature to be sceptical. I think non-juicing athletes have a responsibility in this issue themselves. If one athlete is juicing usually someonelse knows about it.

Is it against the rules for masters swimmers to use performance enhancing drugs? No.

looks like a solid plan ande Quicksilver & Tom, As for how to set up a training cycle with 4 days a week available let me give you an idea how I will prep for Austin starting December 1st: - Approx. 5 month/20 weeks cycle s follows: 1) 7 weeks of high aerobic base training mainly from 3x a week spin classes or riding, 2-3x a week in the water swimming no more than about 3000m (I train for the 200 so most workouts are middle distance but even in this phase do 2-6 starts after practive 1-2x a week and some speed work (fast 25's no breath after practice to ekkp up tempo "feel"), one of these days will probably be playing water polo, yoga 2x a week, weights 1x a week. 2) 6 weeks of higher intensity swimming, short rest intervals, broken swims, meet every weekend that I can find one. Keep cycling/swimming 2x a week, same number of days of yoga/weights but move to more dynamic work; plyo's, stability balls, etc. 3) 4 weeks of high quality race prep wokouts, lots of tempo work, power work (fins and paddles, bungee's, power racks)....same schedule of cycle/yoga/weights. Start turn focus using running dives into pool into turns to simulate race speed. 4) 3 weeks of "taper": stop lifting, stop cycling, yoga 3x a week, lots of quality swims keeping yardage the same for the first 7 days with more rest, the last 14 days begin to lower yardage ech workout, if feeling good get in 2-3 very fast swims with lots of longer (300-600 yard swims) hypoxic recovery (I usually use a snorkel), the last week I stay off stairs if at all possible, no more starts, high qulity 25's no breath and lots of drill work....If i've done my job I've "banked" evrything and now is the time to relax and rest and TRUST thatI'm ready.....then see what happens!

I have been unable to find any direct reference to performance enhancing drugs in our rule book. Is this an oversight, or is it to be inferred or assumed that their use is prohibited?