Dara Torres-Amazing

Mr. Goodsmith: My point was that you and Rich are going pretty fast as Masters swimmers. But you guys were fast to begin with as NCAA Division I swimmers. Do you really think that Dara is on performance enhancing drugs? Because of what she did last night, you don't believe its possible that with the talent, changes in her technique, years of swimming experience, improved dryland and strength training, and an improved mental focus that its not possible to swim that fast? The reason I brought up your swimming is that you have said on this website or hinted that you do not train like you did back in the Univ. of Texas days. If you had the time and desire to do that how much faster would you go? I am willing to bet that even when Dara was not swimming she had a very serious dryland program with that Tai Boe stuff when she was working with Billy Blanks. With that kinda of exercise regime she had in retirement from swimming helped her sprinting capability and that could be one of the reasons why she is swimming faster. That maybe conventional training did work for her similar to what Gary Hall Jr. has said of himself and how with the Race Club type workouts he has been more successful for him and others and that is why he won the gold in the 50 Free in 2004. I suggest you read Mr. Busfield's accusations that are linked. He has accused Dara of taking performance enhancing drugs with out a single bit of proof. He cannot accept that her performances were done legitmately and that she should be banned from swimming based soley on the available circumstantial evidence. If you have not read those threads go and read them and comment on what you think. I have found so many inaccuracies from those 3 links that I could be hear the next 2 hours explaining them. AquaGeek, tell me what you think of those 3 linked stories and do you believe Mr Busfield has any creditability with his accusations? That its impossible to swim that fast as a 40 year old and that all of the circumstantial evidence points to the fact that Dara Torres is a cheater. I wonder what would have happened if Rowdy Gaines would have made the 1988 Olympic team in the 100 Free? People don't realize how close he came to making it and he trained about 10% of what he did for the 1980 and 1984 Olympics. He was 35 at the time but can't people believe that he had outstanding talent just like Dara has and this is a possibility.

Dang it - busted again! I'll take down your picture and the caption underneath of your 2:46 200 SCY free and try to find motivation elsewhere. Will be hard to turn my attention from the self-appointed Stud but I shall do my best to carry on with my shattered swimming life.

So what do you do with the results? Ban people from competing? I don't see that as being a reasonable course of action. It wouldn't be! Not to say the results wouldn't be interesting.

Does Rich have "boatloads" of money too? Maybe he can be a test case ... No, but his dad does.

Look, this name calling and bickering is pointless. Look, we finally get a good hot topic and you want to quash the fun. This is legit conversation by folks who know the sport. Go back to planning your buffet for your meet if you don't like this. Personally, I find this interesting and am learning a lot about fast swimming and that Smith might be on the Balco power lunch, according to Skip anyway. Maybe you should take note.

Rich is legit, no question, but I just don't think his pedigree in the sport is quite up to Dara's level. Also keep in mind the 50 was usually Dara's forte and that wasn't contested at the Olympics until 1988. I think I posted this once before, but here's a link to the results of the 1984 Trials. You might recognize the person in the photo on the second page! www.usaswimming.org/.../84_otrials.pdf Does Rich have "boatloads" of money too? Maybe he can be a test case ...

Careful Kirk..... take a look at Rich's pedigree in the sport. He was as good or better than Dara in his day. Rich is a good comparison for Dara. They both made free relays on the Olympic team in their day. Rich is the "real" thing and he was a multilple national team qualifier. Rich is legit, no question, but I just don't think his pedigree in the sport is quite up to Dara's level. Also keep in mind the 50 was usually Dara's forte and that wasn't contested at the Olympics until 1988. I think I posted this once before, but here's a link to the results of the 1984 Trials. You might recognize the person in the photo on the second page! www.usaswimming.org/.../84_otrials.pdf

In a way you've almost come to Smith's defense (despicable as that may be) as you have pretty much proven it is downright hard to compete with the 20 something elites in your 40s. However John Smith and Rich Saeger are not (I assume) swimming full-time as Dara is. What could they do if they quit working and focused on swimming full-time? I don't think they could do what Dara has done, but then again, as talented as they are, they are not Dara Torres. Sure, let's see what the tests have to say and give the test to all of the final 8 swimmers in the finals. Why not? Quite simply because failing a lie-detector test does not prove you used illegal drugs. I think the only proof you used drugs is to find those drugs in your urine or blood.

Is also the simplest answer to swimming faster at, say 23 or 25, or 29, than at 20 also drugs? So therefore Neethling is a cheater, Phelps is a cheater, Schoeman is a cheater, Jones is a cheater, Keller is a cheater, Brunelli is a cheater, Lochte is a cheater, Vendt is a cheater, Swimstud is a cheater, Coughlin is a cheater, the list goes on and on… Oh come on. At least argue with good faith. Twenty-nine is not forty. Improving your times as a Masters swimmer when you didn't swim at the most elite level is different again. Anyways, this is pointless. People who want to believe she is clean will find the flimsiest pretexts to believe it, and for many of the cynical there is little that will lay the matter to rest. And I suppose that wanting to believe in the wonder of the world, while naive, is not killing babies or anything, so go forth, be happy.

Skip: Not saying Smith isn't on the juice but your argument is lame. Smith, while smoking fast, is probably in the top 2 or 3 in the world for his age, would be well below 90th place in this weekend's meet with his 100 time from Stanford, which I think is a US only meet. In a way you've almost come to Smith's defense (despicable as that may be) as you have pretty much proven it is downright hard to compete with the 20 something elites in your 40s.