I am slow, and when I mean slow, I mean slow. I can do a 26 sec 50 with fins, but without I come in just under 1:20! I think a big part of it is just taking the fins off and doing a lot of kick sets to learn to feel the water better with my feet. I have a good breaststroke kick so I don't think my problem is an overly weak pair of legs, although they could be in better shape. Also, myankles are fairly flexible as I can point my toes and make my feet bend backwards past an even position with my shins. However, I do think that I need to loosen up my ankles when I kick. I feel like I get more out of my kick for those brief moments when I allow my ankles to snap back and forth with my kick. I think I actually need to relax more to kick faster as weird as that sounds.
I suppose the answer to my question is that I simply need to take of the fins and do kick set after kick set until I learn to feel the water better with my feet and become more efficient.
Elite level or masters level?
For both levels:).
This would be an interesting study. The effects of adding or replacing 5 min of workout time with intensive flutter kicking.
For both levels:).
This would be an interesting study. The effects of adding or replacing 5 min of workout time with intensive flutter kicking.
Masters level-Geek for one. If you have ever seen his freestyle, you would agree.
Elite-Massi Rossolino of Italy. One of the fastest 400 freestylers. He didn't have much of a flutter kick. Janet Evans for another. She had a good 2 beat kick but wasn't a fast kicker. Tripp Schwenk-he was a hell of a dolphin kicker but then practically pulled the rest of his 100/200 backstrokes. Anders Holmertz-200/400 free
The one thing that they ALL had/have in common is that their legs are in a streamlined position with their body, which reduces drag. If someone is kicking from the knees down or they are kicking way wider than their body, I absolutely believe spending 5-10 minutes or more to work on getting their legs streamlined with the body is worth that time.
I am not "hating" on ande beliefs as he and others are claiming. I questioning how much is worth to spend time doing sets like 5/10x100 kick on XXX. I have spent years working on strengthing my kick but no matter how much work I do to improve my kick, my legs still wear out faster than the rest of me, regardless of the kicking effort that I put into races.
My point in challenging the idea of doing kicking sets for speed is to see if it is really worth trying to continue to improve or focus on other aspects that might help me get faster while not wearing me out so.
8/16/11: 23.5 SFK, 25.0 flutter w/ board, 13.5 sprint free
8/26/11: 23.5 SFK, 22.low flutter w/board, 13.mid sprint free
9/4/11: 22.mid SFK, 20.hi flutter w/board, 13.mid sprint free
9/14/11: 21.low flutter w/board, 28.hi flutter on back
9/21/11: 20.mid flutter w/board, 28.mid flutter on back, 13.mid sprint free
9/28/11: 20.5 flutter w/board, 27.5 flutter on back, 24.7 SFK
I haven't done SFK in a while but I don't like it much -- it just feels awkward and slow. With the board it seems like I am at least exerting force on the water.
The other day I did 10x50yd flutter w/board on 1:30, averaging about :58-1:00. I am improving a lot in this area though...6 weeks ago I probably could not do a single one in under 1:00.
shane, thanks for the tips, i will keep working on SFK.
how about streamline flutter on back? is it supposed to be slower than the others?
it is slower for me. not sure if it is slow for others.
ExRower I like the idea of Streamline kicking on the back. I am sure I will get critisized for mentioning it.
Not by me, I do a lot of SFK on my back. Sometimes I do long endurance kicks, sometimes I do 50s or 100s on short rest, and sometimes I do sprints with quite alot of rest, but I kick nearly every workout, about 20% of my workout, and a lot of that is on my back with no board. Am I fast? No. Do I think it helps me get faster? Yes.
it is slower for me. not sure if it is slow for others.
For me, SFK on back with no board is about 4 or 5s/50 slower than flutter kick on front with board. YMMV
I haven't done SFK in a while but I don't like it much -- it just feels awkward and slow. With the board it seems like I am at least exerting force on the water.
Hey ExRower, don't give up on the SFK yet.
the reason it feels different with the board is body position. the board lifts your upper body causing the hips to sink. this changes the feel of the kicking especially the upstroke since the feet have to travel further to make it back to the surface.
the fact that you don't feel an exertion of force on the water can be offset by picking up the tempo of your kick. alternatively you can change the body position during SFK by raising/lowering your head. looking straight down results in higher hips and a more streamlined position and allows for a tighter kick. this is fastest way for me personally. looking up at the waterline drops the hips and feels more like kicking with a board.
once you get comfortable with SFK it might be fastest. also, holding streamline position for an extended time is a helpful discipline for improving your walls during normal swim. :2cents:
Hi all...
Former High School and College swimmer trying to get back into swimming to get in shape again. Found this thread fascinating as kicking was always one of my problem areas.
Tried your 4 x (3x25 easy 1x25 sprint kick) today, had my kicks at around 25 secs/25) based on looking at the clock, didn't have anyone to time me officially. Going to work on improvement as I still do a 4 beat kick on free.
So...on to my question...
My freestyle kick is and has always been terrible. In a 100 I could keep a fast kick up and my 100 time was ~52.00 back when I was a "swimmer" and competing. In practice it never was very much over a 4 beat kick.
Here's the crazy thing, my backstroke kick is really quite good. I have a fast kick and my 100 back was ~54.00 and I really attribute my backstroke to my kick. My "event" was 200 back which I came in at 1:58.00, and I could keep a fast kick the entire race, and could NEVER keep it up in a 200 free.
Why, when the kick is essentially the same, was a great on my back, but terrible on my front. I would really like to work on this now that I'm an old fart and could use some things got get back into shape. Thanks everyone, great thread!
