Help My Flutter Kick is Horrible!

I haven't had a chance to try this yet, but it seems like a very good suggestion for how to learn the rhythm: U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Freestyle kick question What's funny to me is that it seems completely natural to have a six-beat kick for backstroke, yet it feels so weird with freestyle. Perhaps it's just my years of two-beat kick that I need to overcome. Thanks, saw that post and tried it yesterday and today. It is the best kicking drill I have come across, yet. It forces you to transfer the kicking motion directly into full stroke. I can't do it, yet. It is going to take a lot of practice but I think I should be able to do it with time.

8/16/11: 23.5 SFK, 25.0 flutter w/ board, 13.5 sprint free 8/26/11: 23.5 SFK, 22.low flutter w/board, 13.mid sprint free 9/4/11: 22.mid SFK, 20.hi flutter w/board, 13.mid sprint free 9/14/11: 21.low flutter w/board, 28.hi flutter on back No improvement in 25yd flutter with board since last time, but I've been working on a lot of 50s and have improved my endurance. I feel like I a have a high power output, lots of splash, feet not coming too much out of water, but it just doesn't translate to much speed. work on your kick for various distances: 15's, 25's, 50's 75's 100's start testing 50's, 75's & 100's I suggested 25's because some really horrible kickers must improve their 25's before they even bother with 50's & up. do some kick sets where you focus improving your DPK distance per kick and KPL kicks per length ( count one leg then double double it) being a runner you might not have good ankle / foot flexibility Looks like k on your bk is the weakest consider having a friend with an underwater camera video you kicking from the side underwater, then youtube it At some point you need to get accurate times to the tenth instead of guesstimations you eye on the pace clock, get a waterproof stopwatch, many iron man type watches are WP ask someone to time you give them instructions of what to do What sort of board are you using? What sort of suit are you wearing? you wrote: I a have a high power output, lots of splash, feet not coming too much out of water, but it just doesn't translate to much speed Ultimately you want to improve your kicking technique, speed, and conditioning. You want to develop a better kick when you swim and a sense of kicking gears, which is how and how hard to kick for various events. I have a fairly fast kick and a strong kick but if I kick too hard or too soon then I won't perform as well in a race. I've had trouble with the 100 free and feel like I haven't had a good 100 fr since 1996.

8/16/11: 23.5 SFK, 25.0 flutter w/ board, 13.5 sprint free 8/26/11: 23.5 SFK, 22.low flutter w/board, 13.mid sprint free 9/4/11: 22.mid SFK, 20.hi flutter w/board, 13.mid sprint free 9/14/11: 21.low flutter w/board, 28.hi flutter on back No improvement in 25yd flutter with board since last time, but I've been working on a lot of 50s and have improved my endurance. I feel like I a have a high power output, lots of splash, feet not coming too much out of water, but it just doesn't translate to much speed.

Here's my question. Since most masters swimmers have limited time for training(usually 1 hour to 1 1/2) a day, anywhere from 3-6 days/week depending on your program, is there really much benefit from doing kicking only sets? How much does improving one's kicking times really benefit distances 200 and up? Wouldn't masters swimmers be better served doing pulling sets, with no paddles and whole stroke swim sets? Granted, if your legs are going all over the place, I do see the place for developing a narrow kick that is streamlined with the rest of the body, but do mid-distance events really

Here's my question. Since most masters swimmers have limited time for training(usually 1 hour to 1 1/2) a day, anywhere from 3-6 days/week depending on your program, is there really much benefit from doing kicking only sets? How much does improving one's kicking times really benefit distances 200 and up? Wouldn't masters swimmers be better served doing pulling sets, with no paddles and whole stroke swim sets? Granted, if your legs are going all over the place, I do see the place for developing a narrow kick that is streamlined with the rest of the body, but do mid-distance events really I agree with your statements here. Since I primarily compete in 200s and up, of all strokes, I don't worry that much about my kick training. I find that with my quick 1 hour a day practice I don't want to "waste the time" with a kickboard. Sure I can blast a 6 beat kick when I have to, but who in there right mind would do a 6 beat kick for an entire 500, 1000, or more? 6 beating it would just zap too much energy. This idea is the same for any backstroke distances as well!! 't swim it like me! :)

Wow... just wow. (smacks forehead) As a person who teaches people to swim, I always start with floats, to kicks to use of arms/strokes. I've had to tell people to back off the arms until we get the kick aligned. I've rarely had to tell someone to stop kicking to fix their arms (except in fly and to a lesser extent the ***). Kicking is important to body position, and propulsion. I'm with Ande on this one.

Wow... just wow. (smacks forehead) Kicking is important to body position, and propulsion. I'm with Ande on this one. Don't smack your head to hard, just causes a headache. I agree that having a streamlined kick will help with body position, but how much propulsion does it really add if you are an average kicker? As masters swimmers, not elite or college or age groupers, with limited amounts of time to train, are we better off focusing on whole stroke swimming sets where our kick training is part of the whole stroke swimming training? Wouldn't pulling sets(no paddles, just a buoy or ankle strap) improve our swimming at a far greater rate than kicking sets? I know a lot of swimmers on here are great kickers, Ande, Fort, Chris S. and spend a lot of their races underwater on fly and back, so that does make sense for them to devote the time to kicking only sets but for those of us that are better on top of the water, how much can we really expect to benefit from kicking only sets?

As someone who was always awful at kicking, and therefore by default a mid-d swimmer, I have found that working on my kick has improved my body position, core strength and ability to keep going. I might get to a point of diminishing returns, but right now I'm still working the kick in practice. And when my arms and shoulders were giving up towards the end of my 1500 this summer, I was able to bring that last 150 home with my legs. Felt great! (ok maybe not, but better than having to rely on arms alone) YMMV:D

Don't smack your head to hard, just causes a headache. I agree that having a streamlined kick will help with body position, but how much propulsion does it really add if you are an average kicker? As masters swimmers, not elite or college or age groupers, with limited amounts of time to train, are we better off focusing on whole stroke swimming sets where our kick training is part of the whole stroke swimming training? Wouldn't pulling sets(no paddles, just a buoy or ankle strap) improve our swimming at a far greater rate than kicking sets? I know a lot of swimmers on here are great kickers, Ande, Fort, Chris S. and spend a lot of their races underwater on fly and back, so that does make sense for them to devote the time to kicking only sets but for those of us that are better on top of the water, how much can we really expect to benefit from kicking only sets? how much propulsion does it really add if you are an average kicker? Not much is my guess, I used to be a slow kicker then I focused on improving and became one of the fastest kickers on the team. What I've suggest in Help my flutter kick is horrible and Help my SDK is horrible is if you have a horrible kick, put forth a concentrated effort for 6 weeks, or 3 months, or 6 months and find out how much you can improve your kick. Begin by shifting your self image from "I'm a terrible kicker." then when a kick set comes up you terribly to "I'm working on improving my kick." As masters swimmers, not elite or college or age groupers, with limited amounts of time to train, are we better off focusing on whole stroke swimming sets where our kick training is part of the whole stroke swimming training? It all depends what your goals are and how bad you want them. What your strengths and weaknesses are. There's many ways to approach training. Wouldn't pulling sets(no paddles, just a buoy or ankle strap) improve our swimming at a far greater rate than kicking sets? There's many ways to train. If you want to swim fast, it helps to have a fast powerful kick, the ability to control your kicking effort level and a fast easy speed kick. so that does make sense for them to devote the time to kicking only sets but for those of us that are better on top of the water, how much can we really expect to benefit from kicking only sets? I'm asking poor kickers to give the "help my flutter kick is horrible" program a shot for just 6 weeks and find out if they become better kickers and if that helps them swim faster. You can do just 1 or 2 rounds of 4 x 25 kick on :45 :50 or 1:00 odds easy evens fast or 3 easy 1 fast The key is to rest up and kick very fast. This would take 6 to 8 minutes per practice 3 times a week. Swimmers will benefit from being faster more efficient better conditioned kickers. Improve your kick then use it the way you need to when you swim. Ande

8/16/11: 23.5 SFK, 25.0 flutter w/ board, 13.5 sprint free 8/26/11: 23.5 SFK, 22.low flutter w/board, 13.mid sprint free 9/4/11: 22.mid SFK, 20.hi flutter w/board, 13.mid sprint free 9/14/11: 21.low flutter w/board, 28.hi flutter on back 9/21/11: 20.mid flutter w/board, 28.mid flutter on back, 13.mid sprint free Lately I've incorporated more moderate swimming 100s w/ 15 seconds rest, trying to keep HR around 150 and get a feel for the water. I'm also doing more volume of kicking. I'm still doing sprint 25 kicks a few times a week. I think the conditioning is helping but appears to be reaching a plateau. I think I can get under 20 or maybe even 19, but I think I'm gonna need some technical improvements to really take off time.