I am slow, and when I mean slow, I mean slow. I can do a 26 sec 50 with fins, but without I come in just under 1:20! I think a big part of it is just taking the fins off and doing a lot of kick sets to learn to feel the water better with my feet. I have a good breaststroke kick so I don't think my problem is an overly weak pair of legs, although they could be in better shape. Also, myankles are fairly flexible as I can point my toes and make my feet bend backwards past an even position with my shins. However, I do think that I need to loosen up my ankles when I kick. I feel like I get more out of my kick for those brief moments when I allow my ankles to snap back and forth with my kick. I think I actually need to relax more to kick faster as weird as that sounds.
I suppose the answer to my question is that I simply need to take of the fins and do kick set after kick set until I learn to feel the water better with my feet and become more efficient.
Hi all... Former High School and College swimmer trying to get back into swimming to get in shape again. Found this thread fascinating as kicking was always one of my problem areas.
Tried your 4 x (3x25 easy 1x25 sprint kick) today, had my kicks at around 25 secs/25) based on looking at the clock, didn't have anyone to time me officially. Going to work on improvement as I still do a 4 beat kick on free.
So...on to my question... My freestyle kick is and has always been terrible. In a 100 I could keep a fast kick up and my 100 time was ~ 52.00 back when I was a "swimmer" and competing. In practice it never was very much over a 4 beat kick. Here's the crazy thing, my backstroke kick is really quite good. I have a fast kick and my 100 back was ~54.00 and I really attribute my backstroke to my kick. My "event" was 200 back which I came in at 1:58.00, and I could keep a fast kick the entire race, and could NEVER keep it up in a 200 free. Why, when the kick is essentially the same, was a great on my back, but terrible on my front. I would really like to work on this now that I'm an old fart and could use some things got get back into shape. Thanks everyone, great thread!
Hi Adam,
Welcome, it's unusual to be able to sustain a great kick in backstroke but not freestyle. It's also unusual to go 54 in the 1bk & 52 in the 1fr. Usually swimmers have a bigger spread between the 2.
I'm curious to see how your kicking times fall.
Test:
1) 25 flutter kick fast with a board,
2) 25 streamline flutterkick on your belly, and
3) 25 streamline flutterkick on your back.
Start the same way on all 3
I think it might be a mental thing. Kicking on your back seems to be more natural to you and maybe faster. You can learn to 6 beat kick when you're swimming freestyle and develop the ability and conditioning to sustain it for an entire 200. Make it a priority and a project and keep working on it day after day week after week and Post your progress.
I haven't done it with a board yet, but the difference between streamline belly and back was 3 secs, with the back being faster. Although I attribute that to the breathing on the belly which slowed me down. That was a dead sprint.
8/16/11: 23.5 SFK, 25.0 flutter w/ board, 13.5 sprint free
8/26/11: 23.5 SFK, 22.low flutter w/board, 13.mid sprint free
9/4/11: 22.mid SFK, 20.hi flutter w/board, 13.mid sprint free
9/14/11: 21.low flutter w/board, 28.hi flutter on back
9/21/11: 20.mid flutter w/board, 28.mid flutter on back, 13.mid sprint free
9/28/11: 20.5 flutter w/board, 27.5 flutter on back, 24.7 SFK
10/7/11: 19.54 flutter w/board, 26.12 flutter on back
New personal bests on both here. I think I will start training kick with mostly 50s, and test those next time.
My swimming is mostly just easy 2-beat stuff to work on technique and recovery, but at a later date I'll do more swim workouts.
8/16/11: 23.5 SFK, 25.0 flutter w/ board, 13.5 sprint free
8/26/11: 23.5 SFK, 22.low flutter w/board, 13.mid sprint free
9/4/11: 22.mid SFK, 20.hi flutter w/board, 13.mid sprint free
9/14/11: 21.low flutter w/board, 28.hi flutter on back
9/21/11: 20.mid flutter w/board, 28.mid flutter on back, 13.mid sprint free
9/28/11: 20.5 flutter w/board, 27.5 flutter on back, 24.7 SFK
10/7/11: 19.54 flutter w/board, 26.12 flutter on back
New personal bests on both here. I think I will start training kick with mostly 50s, and test those next time.
My swimming is mostly just easy 2-beat stuff to work on technique and recovery, but at a later date I'll do more swim workouts.
WOW way to go!
you keep getting faster, looks like you got a watch
yesterday I played around at the end of practice &
did a 25 SFK from a roll start dive off a block in 11.5
Moving this over from "swim fast faster"
I've been working on developing speed for a single length (to me that is 33 yds)
Like Ande suggests I am doing 2 rounds of 4x33 with a minute rest, evens fast. I am kicking with a board, but also with a snorkle so I don't loose body position when breathing. The snorkle is making a big difference.
I am kicking the fast ones 32-35. That would be a 1:36 pace for a 100. I am encouraged by this!
Hey Rtodd,
you train 5 - 6x/wk & ave 2500 per practice
How long are you in the pool for each practice?
consider ramping up your yardage
from 2.5k to
3, 3.5, 4, 4.5 or 5k per practice
Do you train alone or with a team or partner/s?
your 500 time is 6:10 & you'd like to go under 6:00
Train to do that and go way under 6:00
you wrote your kick is "The worst"
you flutter kicked 100 with a board in 2:42. (ave 40.5 per 25)
Rtodd, for now, ONLY focus on improving your kicking speed for 15m, 25's, & 33's, forget 50's, 66's, 75's & 100's kick, you need more speed.
Wear fins for 1/2 to 3/4ths of your kick sets
Do 2 to 4 rounds of this flutter kick set per practice:
4 x (15 or 25 or 33) kick
odds: easy Rest 30 - 45 sec
evens: FAST BLAST rest 5 - 10,
pay attention to your times
ASK a friend to video you kicking from the side and youtube it
You really want to get to that next level & think kicking might be the answer. YES get kick baselines and post.
What percentage of my workout should be kick?
not much
just 200 to 400 or 2 x (4 x 25) or 4 x (4 x 25)
The key is KICK really FAST when it's time to kick fast
when you're kicking easy concentrate on efficiency
Wear fins for half of your kick sets
also work on your SDK
do 2 x (4 x 25) SDK in practice
1 round with fins, 1 round NO fins
on FAST just kick half way across the pool then swim easy free or kick on your side or back
currently you kick 200 in warmup and that's it.
No in practice kick sets ever. Is this a huge mistake?
YES, kick fast in every practice
TEST once a week:
Do a VERY fast 25 or 33 flutter kick and SDK
Then REPORT YOUR RESULTS in Help My Flutter Kick is Horrible.
I hope over time it will become less horrible and maybe even decent
__________________
Happy Laps to you,
A n d e
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Anybody here working on your flutter kick, SDK or sprint speed?
follow the program and post your results
LINKS to Speed Training Programs:
Try them out, report your results.
Help My flutter Kick is Horrible
U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Help My Flutter Kick is Horrible!
my original advice
Help my SDK is Horrible
Help! My SDK is Horrible! - U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums
Help my Speed is Horrible
Help My Speed is Horrible! - U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums
8/16/11: 23.5 SFK, 25.0 flutter w/ board, 13.5 sprint free
8/26/11: 23.5 SFK, 22.low flutter w/board, 13.mid sprint free
9/4/11: 22.mid SFK, 20.hi flutter w/board, 13.mid sprint free
9/14/11: 21.low flutter w/board, 28.hi flutter on back
9/21/11: 20.mid flutter w/board, 28.mid flutter on back, 13.mid sprint free
9/28/11: 20.5 flutter w/board, 27.5 flutter on back, 24.7 SFK
10/7/11: 19.54 flutter w/board, 26.12 flutter on back
10/19/11: 45.47 50yd flutter w/board, 25.81 flutter on back, 29.x 50yd free from push
My kick continues to improve, but the freestyle still sucks. I will work on sprint swimming more later, but for now the full stroke swimming I'm doing is easy (10-20 repeat 100s on 1:40 cycle holding 1:30) to build a base. HR is around 140-150 for that. I quickly build up lactic acid if I try to go even 10sec/100 faster than that.
10/7/11: 19.54 flutter w/board, 26.12 flutter on back
10/19/11: 45.47 50yd flutter w/board, 25.81 flutter on back, 29.x 50yd free from push
10/26/11: 19.20 25yd flutter w/board
A couple days ago I had a nice 10x50yd kick workout on 1:10, coming through in 59 or 60.
My easy 2-beat kick swimming is getting more and more relaxed, but my sprint swimming is incredibly awkward. 16 strokes per lap (from a push with 2 dolphin kicks) and a slow turnover too.
Does anyone have a few recommendations on fins? I need to think of something to ask for for Christmas.
Now, I'm not asking whether or not to use fins as I already have my mind made up! But I see a few advantages: getting used to moving faster and learning arm technique at higher speed, ankle flexibility, as well as working the legs in a more cardio-intensive and fun way.
I'd generally like to improve on everything.
Thanks a lot for any help!
10/7/11: 19.54 flutter w/board, 26.12 flutter on back
10/19/11: 45.47 50yd flutter w/board, 25.81 flutter on back, 29.x 50yd free from push
10/26/11: 19.20 25yd flutter w/board
11/6/11: 18.99 25yd flutter w/board, 24.53 flutter on back, sub-13 25yd free
Fun day today -- 25 sprints interspersed with relaxed, very easy recovery laps. I also did a 25 fly (14-ish) and 25 back (16-ish) but only saw the wall clock.
If anyone missed it, I'd really appreciate any recommendations on the fins question above.
