I am slow, and when I mean slow, I mean slow. I can do a 26 sec 50 with fins, but without I come in just under 1:20! I think a big part of it is just taking the fins off and doing a lot of kick sets to learn to feel the water better with my feet. I have a good breaststroke kick so I don't think my problem is an overly weak pair of legs, although they could be in better shape. Also, myankles are fairly flexible as I can point my toes and make my feet bend backwards past an even position with my shins. However, I do think that I need to loosen up my ankles when I kick. I feel like I get more out of my kick for those brief moments when I allow my ankles to snap back and forth with my kick. I think I actually need to relax more to kick faster as weird as that sounds.
I suppose the answer to my question is that I simply need to take of the fins and do kick set after kick set until I learn to feel the water better with my feet and become more efficient.
It's not "hating" by asking if adult swimmers should spend their limitied training time focusing on kicking or if it would be better to focus on whole stroke swimming where the kick is trained along with the rest of body.
The kick challenge really does not take too much training time, maybe 20 seconds 2X week (18 seconds SCY). Nevertheless, when my shoulders arent up to it, kicking will allways have a place.
I'm curious, are there any bad kickers who are fast?
WTH is up with the haters on this thread?
Ande is simply trying to help people who would like to improve their kicking. This is not the "Is kicking worth the trouble?" thread.
I can tell you that by following his advice my kicking improved greatly and my swimming ABSOLUTELY got faster as well.
My priorities have shifted to other things lately but the nice thing is that it doesn't take near as much work to get back up to speed now. My muscles remember what to do, it just hurts at first.
Basically my flutter kick is no longer "horrible".
Thanks Ande.
Agreed
I offered this solution in response to a masters swimmer who said he was a horrible flutter kicker and wanted to improve. It takes about 5 or 10 minutes per practice, that's it. Some people feel that's too much or it's not worth it.
Improvement takes consistent concentrated effort over time.
There's many ways to get faster and one of the most effective ways for poor kickers to swim faster is to develop a faster kick and learn to use it when they swim. Swimmers need to develop kicking "gears" and kick the right way in each race. Strong kickers tend to have better last lengths. It's about attitude, action, technique and conditioning.
Becoming a better kicker will also give you a better easier 2 beat kick.
Many swimmers kick with poor form and too much effort.
Haters can start their own threads and I've encouraged them to do so.
Eddie Reese told me 2 of his swimmers made:
30 x 100 scy flutter kick with a board on 1:15!
Rather remarkable.
Everybody can improve.
give it a shot and see what you got
Ande
I would think at the elite level or those at the masters level who are really competitive at Zone/Nationals, they all must have really good kicks (and everything else) to be that fast. Kinda like PGA golfers - they all have to have a really good drive. Otherwise, they wouldn't be at that level.
For golfers it's not just drive:
there's:
Driving distance?
Fairways hit
Greens in regulation?
Putting? / Putts per hole
Average score
this article covers it well.
The real difference between you & Tiger:
our exclusive survey of amateur play at Torrey Pines reveals this:
the gap between you and the pros is even bigger than you think
In swimming:
there are critical factors that can be quantified and compared
WTH is up with the haters on this thread? Ande is simply trying to help people who would like to improve their kicking. This is not the "Is kicking worth the trouble?" thread. I can tell you that by following his advice my kicking improved greatly and my swimming ABSOLUTELY got faster as well. My priorities have shifted to other things lately but the nice thing is that it doesn't take near as much work to get back up to speed now. My muscles remember what to do, it just hurts at first. Basically my flutter kick is no longer "horrible".
Thanks Ande.
It's not "hating" by asking if adult swimmers should spend their limitied training time focusing on kicking or if it would be better to focus on whole stroke swimming where the kick is trained along with the rest of body.
I'm curious, are there any bad kickers who are fast?
Elite level or masters level?
I would think at the elite level or those at the masters level who are really competitive at Zone/Nationals, they all must have really good kicks (and everything else) to be that fast. Kinda like PGA golfers - they all have to have a really good drive. Otherwise, they wouldn't be at that level.
8/16/11: 23.5 SFK, 25.0 flutter w/ board, 13.5 sprint free
8/26/11: 23.5 SFK, 22.low flutter w/board, 13.mid sprint free
9/4/11: 22.mid SFK, 20.hi flutter w/board, 13.mid sprint free
9/14/11: 21.low flutter w/board, 28.hi flutter on back
9/21/11: 20.mid flutter w/board, 28.mid flutter on back, 13.mid sprint free
Lately I've incorporated more moderate swimming 100s w/ 15 seconds rest, trying to keep HR around 150 and get a feel for the water. I'm also doing more volume of kicking. I'm still doing sprint 25 kicks a few times a week.
I think the conditioning is helping but appears to be reaching a plateau. I think I can get under 20 or maybe even 19, but I think I'm gonna need some technical improvements to really take off time.
Great job, you're continuing to train, improve & test.
you're not plateauing
Get a water proof stopwatch (like an ironman wrist watch) and
time your kicks to the 10th of a second,
Knocking your 25 kick time down by a 10th of a second is progress,
right now you're just eyeballing and guessing.
It's time for accurate timing.
What are your goals?
WTH is up with the haters on this thread? Ande is simply trying to help people who would like to improve their kicking. This is not the "Is kicking worth the trouble?" thread. I can tell you that by following his advice my kicking improved greatly and my swimming ABSOLUTELY got faster as well. My priorities have shifted to other things lately but the nice thing is that it doesn't take near as much work to get back up to speed now. My muscles remember what to do, it just hurts at first. Basically my flutter kick is no longer "horrible".
Thanks Ande.
