Help My Flutter Kick is Horrible!

9/4/11: -22.mid SFK from push -20.hi flutter kick with board from push -13.mid freestyle sprint from push All of these are self-timed so the freestyle sprint is least accurate as there is probably a delay from the time i finish until i can see my watch. Not sure why my kicking with board is faster than the SFK. maybe i lose a lot of speed when I take a breath during SFK around the 15-20m mark. I've been increasing the kicking volume a bit and incorporating 50s now. I plan to do some flutter kick on back to keep things balanced, though I am much slower at it.

Better learn how to combine your kick with your swim stroke. Suggestions for how to do this?

I still am in favour of a 6 beat kick. I like easy swimming with easy kicking for a start. Once you have the arms and leg action well coordinated then you add power to the arms and legs. In distance swimming the legs act as balancers. If you over work the legs while swimming distance you will certainly not feel great. I would suggest you not have the feet come out of the water while kicking. I prefer the shoulder movement controlling the leg action and not let the leg action control the shoulder movement. If I were to practice legs only I would do more kickicking on the back then on the front and not ever use a kickboard.

Suggestions for how to do this? That's the million dollar question and, so far, I haven't come across a decent explanation. I think it is very difficult to explain and, I suspect if someone were able to explain it, it would be very dry and technical and hard to understand. I am sure it is a bit like co-ordinating the arms, legs, whole body when dancing: you either have that rhythm or you don't. That's not to say you can't learn it, though. I have made this problem my main area of focus now and hope to sort it out once and for all however I think it is going to take a while.

If I were to practice legs only I would do more kickicking on the back then on the front and not ever use a kickboard. George, would love to hear your reasoning behind this especially as to why not to use a kickboard.

Syd I said before I do not believe in kickboards, kicking only or paddles. In the 50's I only did some kicking when Olympic, BE&Commonwealth Games or Pan American Games team Coaches insisted that I do some kicking or face the consequences. They would have sent me home. I have done only full stroke swimming since I started long distance swimming in 1962. I did the marathon circuit for 8 years. I just do not believe in kicking on its own.

Syd I said before I do not believe in kickboards, kicking only or paddles. In the 50's I only did some kicking when Olympic, BE&Commonwealth Games or Pan American Games team Coaches insisted that I do some kicking or face the consequences. They would have sent me home. I have done only full stroke swimming since I started long distance swimming in 1962. I did the marathon circuit for 8 years. I just do not believe in kicking on its own. Hey George, How's your training going? What are your recent times? What are your kicking times for a 25, 50, 100, & 200. What pace can you hold for 5 or 10 100's flutter kick. I heard phelps did 10 x 100 flutter kick on 1:10 and Vanderkaay could kick 400 LCM under 5:00. I agree, kicking fast while swimming is most important, but many world class swimmers do kick sets everyday with and without boards. The purpose of this thread is to help and encourage swimmers to become faster kickers which will help them become faster swimmers. We know your views on kicking, you've expressed them many times in this thread. www.usms.org/.../showpost.php www.usms.org/.../showthread.php consider starting your own thread against kicking, you could call it Kicking is a Complete Waste of Time or Lug those Legs or Legs Schmegs: bag em and drag em If a swimmer wants to become a faster kicker she really needs to work her kick sets. Anything we do and measure improves. The kick improvement training I've described here really works. We both know what doing nothing does. I know that kicking fast with a board, without a board and while swimming absolutely WILL enable swimmers kick faster and swim faster. The shift begins with attitude, determination, adopting a new self image, and acting as if, but little seeds of doubt can creep in, and soon swimmers can believe: "I am what i am and there's nothing I can do about it," or "Why bother, it won't work." The truth of the advice in "Help My Flutter Kick is Horrible" is if you work it, it works. Ande

Ande You probaley notice I don't comment on many of your posts, many of them I like. I just do not kick for practice and don't care to. My 50 mts are still around 30 seconds. I swim about 3 times a week and only do a 1000 mtrs each time I go to the pool. My prime is over and if I were really interested in setting new lifetime best times for a 50 or a 100 I may kick a little. I am not telling you not to kick anymore. I am saying I did not do a lot of kicking and I don't want to kick. To me it would be a waste of time to kick as I only do a 1000 metre work out.

That's the million dollar question and, so far, I haven't come across a decent explanation. I think it is very difficult to explain and, I suspect if someone were able to explain it, it would be very dry and technical and hard to understand. I am sure it is a bit like co-ordinating the arms, legs, whole body when dancing: you either have that rhythm or you don't. That's not to say you can't learn it, though. I have made this problem my main area of focus now and hope to sort it out once and for all however I think it is going to take a while. I haven't had a chance to try this yet, but it seems like a very good suggestion for how to learn the rhythm: U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Freestyle kick question What's funny to me is that it seems completely natural to have a six-beat kick for backstroke, yet it feels so weird with freestyle. Perhaps it's just my years of two-beat kick that I need to overcome.

Ande You probaley notice I don't comment on many of your posts, many of them I like. I just do not kick for practice and don't care to. My 50 mts are still around 30 seconds. I swim about 3 times a week and only do a 1000 mtrs each time I go to the pool. My prime is over and if I were really interested in setting new lifetime best times for a 50 or a 100 I may kick a little. I am not telling you not to kick anymore. I am saying I did not do a lot of kicking and I don't want to kick. To me it would be a waste of time to kick as I only do a 1000 metre work out. Hey George, Thank you. I agree, If you're only doing 1k, 3x a week then you don't need to kick. But if a swimmer has a weak kick and is eager to improve her 50, 100, 200, 400 or 500, this would definitely help that swimmer kick faster and swim faster. Ande