Does USMS require anyone to provide proof of their age currently? Seems to me this would be the same scenario if the answer is "no." Simply have a check box for "Are you a citizen of the United States" on the registration form.USMS does not require proof of age for membership. However, the application for USMS national records does require a copy of a birth certificate or passport.
In Jeff’s hypothetical situation the “foreign swimmer” could be a U.S. citizen. A U.S. citizen can register with another FINA Masters national governing body and compete under that affiliation at a USMS sanctioned event. The same rules for “foreign swimmer” would apply to this hypothetical foreign U.S. citizen at a USMS event.
MUD - as clear as mud. I think checking all swimmers for proof of citizenship would be a daunting task.
As far as age , when we register , we now go on the honor system- yes?
USMS does not require proof of age for membership. However, the application for USMS national records does require a copy of a birth certificate or passport.
Wouldn't that (a passport, anyway) cover the proposed proof of citizenship requirement? A copy of one's passport would show both proof of age and proof of citizenship.
edit: well, maybe not. Per Wikipedia:
A passport specifies nationality, but not necessarily citizenship or the place of residence of the passport holder.
However, it does provide proof of U.S. citizenship:
By law, a valid unexpired U.S. passport (or passport card) is conclusive (and not just prima facie) proof of U.S. citizenship, and has the same force and effect as proof of United States citizenship as certificates of naturalization or of citizenship, if issued to a U.S. citizen for the full period allowed by law.
Agree! We have many swimmers who are long time, legal residents who are not citizens. Do we really want to go there?????
Sure. USMS is governing body for masters swimming. Not sure why it is unreasonable to expect only Americans be eligible for American records and national championships. I agree that it it is probably unenforceable like perhaps all the P.E.D. use as well. I don't care that much. I'll continue to show up and get thrashed by foreigners, sufferers of low T, the anemic that require EPO, and superior athletes. Peace.
Evidently Missy Franklin has the 25 backstroke record for Mars.
swimswam.com/.../
;)
I saw nothing about interplanetary swim meets in that. I know Missy swims like she was born on Krypton, but... ???
We have many USMS members who are citizens of other countries. It would not be practical to check everyone's citizenship; contrary to what Jeff Roddin said earlier, I don't think we could verify it only once. I think it would have to be done every year (because someone could change their citizenship).
As sort of a thread hijack, :hijack: we have members who reside in other countries. Some of them are U.S. citizens, but others are not. I thought you might all like to see the list of countries to where the May-June issue of SWIMMER magazine was just mailed:
Australia
Bermuda
Brazil
Belarus
Canada
Finland
France
Germany
Hong Kong
Indonesia
Ireland
Israel
Italy
Japan
Mexico
Monaco
Netherlands
New Zealand
Norway
Poland
Puerto Rico
Russia
Sweden
Singapore
South Korea
Spain
Switzerland
Turks and Caicos
Turkey
Trinidad and Tobago
United Kingdom
U.S. Virgin Islands
I saw nothing about interplanetary swim meets in that. I know Missy swims like she was born on Krypton, but... ???
You didn't read closely enough:
Some of Missy’s recent achievements*:
-Swimming World’s World Swimmer of the Year.
-FINA Swimmer of the Year – 2011, 2012.
-First woman to successfully swim a 25 yard backstroke on Mars.
-Swept the 100 and 200 backstroke at the London Olympics. (4 Olympic golds + 1 silver altogether).
-Won 6 gold medals at 2013 World Aquatics Championships in Barcelona.
* One of these is completely and utterly made-up. You decide.
However, it may not be politically correct to call USMS records USMS world records. Maybe galactic or multiverse records would cause less turmoil.
Since we haven't received any meet results from our space probes or UFOs, USMS Short Course Earth Records would do for now.
oh, the semantics...
a "USMS National Record" may be set by any eligible member of U.S. Masters Swimming in good standing regardless of citizenship.
We don't have anything called "American" records. If we did, and the key word here is "American," then I think the citizenship debate should be opened.
Regardless, there are how many records set every year? (very few)
By how many swimmers? (even fewer)
And of those, how many might not be U.S. Citizens? (rare)
Not sure this is worth too much discussion.
