rule on records

Hypothetical question: can a hypothetical French citizen set hypothetical national records swimming for a hypothetical American team?Speaking strictly hypothetically, I think if they are registered with USMS, the answer is yes.

Hypothetical question: can a hypothetical French citizen set hypothetical national records swimming for a hypothetical American team? You mean like this current USMS record in the 25-29 age group? 50 Free Frederick Bousquet 02-13-10 18.67 (I don't care who you are, a hypothetical 4:01.32 400 IM is an impressive swim for a 47 year old.)

You mean like this current USMS record in the 25-29 age group? 50 Free Frederick Bousquet 02-13-10 18.67 (I don't care who you are, a hypothetical 4:01.32 400 IM is an impressive swim for a 47 year old.) Nicolas Granger is the real deal. Last week I believe he was the oldest registered USMS swimmer at 47 to compete in the USA Grand Prix Series in Mesa, AZ. He swam a 200 IM in 2:11.93 which bettered the USMS National Record by 3 seconds and hopefully the pool measurements will be turned in and he has another USMS Record. This 400 IM was just as impressive as Chris says. This swimmer has come back from 2 bouts of cancer and schedules his swimming around a family of 7 kids. This is a great story that masters swimmers should know about.

For claification...are you asking if the French citizen can set the American record, or the French record? But, I just looked in the USMS rulebook (available online) and found this rule under the Awards section: 104.5.7 Awards A. Awards — All top finishers in each race will be given awards regardless of the nationality of the swimmer. So one would think that if the USMS authorizes awards for non-US swimmers...then any record time by a non-US swimmer would also be recognized. Dan

I agree. Great story. Definitely one of the greatest masters swimmers ever. I just think it peculiar that foreign citizens are allowed American national championships and national records.

I agree. Great story. Definitely one of the greatest masters swimmers ever. I just think it peculiar that foreign citizens are allowed American national championships and national records. Kurt: This was brought up about 9 years ago and there was kind of a push to get USMS Open Records approved at the 2006 Convention for non USA citizens. The people that were proposing it could not attend the convention so it became a dead issue. At this same convention it was brought up that FINA should change the way they register swimmers for the World Championships and it should be by country and not by Club. That to did not get anywhere. We are very different than USA-S and FINA Swimming about this. Nicolas could not get a USMS Record unless he was a citizen of the USA under USA Swimming Rules. The NCAA has basically the same rule. Foreign citizens are allowed to get Championship Meet Records, US Open Records, and of course World Records when they swim in competitions on US soil. USMS lets any registered USMS swimmer get any National Record that they earn. Nicolas can"t get any records from this meet in France because they don't swim or keep short course yards records. In FINA Masters Swimming you are allowed to register with any FINA governing body and if you want you can register with two or more. USMS Rules only count the record if you are representing and swimming with your USMS Club at the meet and not the foreign one. I not sure what France or others do with this in SCM and LCM when swimmers are not swimming with there nations Club about National Records but USMS does not count the swims for USMS Top ten or Records unless he represents the USMS Club. . So the biggest difference is that in FINA Swimming, you must be a citizen of the country you are swimming for and you cannot swim for more than one country. We in USMS and the rest of the FINA Masters Swimming World are not at this stage yet and we may never get there.

Why not just call them USMS Records?I believe they are called USMS national records to differentiate them from USMS zone records and USMS LMSC records. As an aside, our USMS LMSC records work the same way as USMS national records; you need to be a member of the USMS through our LMSC but you don’t need to live in the LMSC to set LMSC records.

I believe they are called USMS national records to differentiate them from USMS zone records and USMS LMSC records. Ah, makes sense.

FWIW, I have a (very non-impressive) national Masters record here in South America. The rule here is that you must have residency, rather than a work visa or temporary visa, which basically proves that this is my home country and this is where I primarily compete rather than the US. I think that that standard is reasonable - we've had a few pro US swimmers here over the years and the residency rule prevents them from coming in, blowing up the record books in a meet, and leaving.

I just think it peculiar that foreign citizens are allowed American national championships and national records. I agree. They shouldn't be called "National Records" if foreign citizens can hold them. Why not just call them USMS Records? That makes it pretty clear: fastest swims by USMS registered swimmers. And, yeah, Granger is fast!