Why would we require citizenship for USMS Registration? Wouldn't USMS need a rule first about USMS Record requirements and the only masters swimmers that would be eligible for them would be citizens of the USA. Unless things have significantly changed from 9 years ago there was no support at the convention for any kind of change the way we tabulate USMS Records. It was pointed out that we have records as an organization and they are called USMS Records. We don't have American Records, US Open Records, and Championship Meet Records at USMS Nationals. To simply things and have less complexity, we do it this way and its been done this way for the last 40 years or so.
Swimming at both the FINA and USA-S levels have requirements for citizenship, requiring swimmers only to swim for one NGB, and having swimmers set records for separate classification such as in USA-S case, American Records, US Open Records and Championship Meet Records. This would be a lot of extra work for volunteers and the National Office to keep track of registrations and swims in meets with foreign swimmers who are not American citizens. To have us ask for passports and green cards seems little excessive for masters swimming and the organization as a whole. Recently there have been many elite foreign swimmers that have set USMS Records so this Nicolas Granger setting records is nothing new.
If people feel strongly about this, they should put a USMS Rule proposal for a change to be submitted at the Convention this fall. Perhaps many think that things have changed in the last 9 years since 2006. Since this is not a Rules year, this proposal would need a 90% vote to pass in the HOD and it would have to be declared an Emergency Rule change. Other wise it would have to wait until 2016 to get a majority assuming the Records & Top Ten Committee would approve it and if they did not, then it would need a 2/3 vote to pass.
Why would we require citizenship for USMS Registration?... To have us ask for passports and green cards seems little excessive for masters swimming and the organization as a whole. I don't think we should require citizenship. I imagine we already have plenty of USMS members who are living/training in this country for a variety of reasons and are not citizens. I think (as we currently do) we should open our doors / lanes / meets / membership to anyone who wants to join.
I think we should take it as an honor that swimmers globally are coming to our Nationals - clearly they see USMS is doing something great, putting on a great event and offering great competition.
If people feel strongly about this, they should put a USMS Rule proposal for a change to be submitted at the Convention this fall.
As for the USMS SCY records, though, since I don't think any other country competes in SCY, we should just call them USMS World Records, kind of like MLB calls their premier event the World Series.
How do we put forward a proposal?
I don't think you can call anything World because that is under FINA and they will not approve that. In 1984, there was an organization called MSI, which stands for Masters Swimming International. They put on the first World Championships in New Zealand and advertised it that way and were stopped by FINA from using the word World Championships because they did not sanction it and had nothing to do with it. They don't recognize SCY anyway, but they would not approve of this since they as organization have no control over an NGB using the term World Records. FINA is the only organization that is allowed to use the word "World" when the subject is swimming in regards to other NGB's using the word World in conjunction with World Championships or World Records. In 1984, MSI had to change the meet title to International Championships instead of World Championships.
Senior Olympics had the same issue because they could not use the word Olympics in their name and had to change it to Senior Games. Only the US Olympic Committee reserves the right to use that name and thus Senior Games is the title of the competition now and not Senior Olympics.
I don't think you can call anything World because that is under FINA and they will not approve that. Sort of…
FINA’s GR 9.1.1 states “The words World and FINA may not be used in connection with any Swimming, Diving, High Diving, Water Polo, Synchronized Swimming, or Open Water Swimming event without the consent of FINA.”
Two items of note in GR 9.1.1 are the use of “and” in “The words World and FINA” and term “event”. So technically we could use “World” as long as it wasn’t with FINA or associated with an event. However, it may not be politically correct to call USMS records USMS world records. Maybe galactic or multiverse records would cause less turmoil.
Why would we require citizenship for USMS Registration?
We should not, but I was only speculating on what the process would be IF USMS national records could only be set by U.S. citizens.
Hypothetical question: can a hypothetical French citizen set hypothetical national records swimming for a hypothetical American team?
Speaking as a Registrar, if somebody registers with USMS would I be expected to have all swimmers provide proof of US citizenship in order to process their registrations? Otherwise how would I know they are foreign citizens or not? I would guess we would also require any new swimmers to register by paper so they could mail in proof of citizenship and/or change the online system to allow uploads of that data and then have the Registrar decide if the documentation was legit or not. If we went down that road, we'd need to also authenticate the current 50k+ members of USMS (and then only do that for new swimmers).
As a swimmer who may be in the same age group as a hypothetical example (and swim many of the same events!), I know how you feel but I also don't know how we could implement anything different than what are currently doing.
I think the issue comes more into play for Spring Nationals because for Summer Nationals these hypothetical swimmers are more likely to represent their "home" country so they are eligible to break meters' records for their "home" country. That is, if you are registered both USMS and with your "home" country you can pick which registration to use for the meet (i.e. you cannot represent both). Assuming they pick their "home" country, then they are eligible for awards at Nationals but not All-American, Top Ten or USMS records (but are eligible to break records back home).
USMS Rule 104.5.7A states all top finishers will be given awards regardless of nationality, and then 104.5.7B explains the patches (for first place). That would be a rule somebody could propose a change where a foreign swimmer would not be eligible to receive a patch (and perhaps the next fastest USMS swimmer in that event would receive the patch?). That sort of proposal would only apply if the top swimmer entered the meet under their foreign registration (which hypothetically doesn't always happen).
Jeff Roddin
PV Registrar
Do we really want to go there?????
No. Why are we rocking this boat? Speaking as a long time US resident but not a US citizen, the way it's set up now works fine. If you're registered with a USMS club, your times count for USMS records.
Speaking as a Registrar, if somebody registers with USMS would I be expected to have all swimmers provide proof of US citizenship in order to process their registrations?
Does USMS require anyone to provide proof of their age currently? Seems to me this would be the same scenario if the answer is "no." Simply have a check box for "Are you a citizen of the United States" on the registration form.
