Does anyone know the rationale behind USMS rule 103.13.1(B)(1)? Specifically, this says that in order for an initial distance split to count as an "official time" (and thus, eligible for records, top-ten, etc.), the swimmer must notify the meet referee in writing before the end of the meet.
Does anyone know why we insist on this level of administrivia? This means that, technically, even as a meet director... if I notice that someone's 1000 split on their 1650 would be a new record... it's not a new record unless I remind the swimmer him/herself to write down on a piece of paper "Please make my split time count", and hand it to the referee. Before they leave the pool at the end of the meet.
In USA Swimming, the paperwork isn't necessary. Your 1000 split counts, without any paperwork, as long as it's valid, you finished the event, etc., etc. But you don't need silly paperwork.
So why do we insist on this paperwork in USMS? This seems like something that is doing us all a massive disservice as I'm sure many many potential records and top ten performances are being missed. If you swim a 1650, and your initial 1000 was a certain time... then your initial 1000 was that time, regardless of any paperwork you submit by the end of the meet.
(This is separate from setting up an expectation that these splits will be automatically submitted. That's a separate issue. My only issue is that if the swimmer does not write something down on a post-it note, that the window of opportunity closes, and there is no way to un-close the window the way the rulebook is written.)
I suppose the solution is to amend the disclaimer/waiver language for our meet entries to include a sentence "I HEREBY REQUEST TO THE REFEREE THAT EVERY INITIAL DISTANCE OF EVERY EVENT THAT I SWIM BE CONSIDERED AS AN OFFICIAL TIME.", and then that part of the rule is satisfied. If the USMS Rules Committee insists, I can photocopy all of our entry forms, and hand them to the Referee before the end of the meet.
-Rick
This is an interesting discussion and brings up some good points.
I wonder if the rule to notify before the end of the meet is for the convenience of the meet director. There has to be a limit on how long you can request splits. As a meet director, I don't want to go back over the meet file after I have wrapped up/finalized the meet results (2 or 3 days). If the meet director only has access to Meet Manager at the facility, it is more difficult for the meet director to get the splits. National or World Records offer a challege also because the referee has to sign the submission form.
On the other hand, some good swims are lost because the swimmer doesn't know to make the request. I'd like to be able to include splits if I notice a good time when I am preparing the final copy of the results. But is that fair because I might not notice all possibilities?
Good topic for discussion!
I've always wondered what you put for a seed time when doing a split request. Do you put a very fast seed time since you will go out fast or do you put what you plan on finishing in?
The latter. I suggest the same thing swimmers should always do: enter with the time they expect to do in that particular swim. Timelines are created based on seed times. So if you enter the 200 free and are really going for a split request for the 50, you should enter with the time you expect to finish that 200. If you enter with your best time in the 200 and then proceed to go 2 minutes slower than that time, shame on you for screwing up the timeline and holding up the meet...
That didn't answer my question.
I'm not quite sure why you'd put a different time than you normally would?
Oh, maybe you're thinking of people who enter, say a 200 free, but really only intend to do hard 100, then an easy 100. I'd say in this case you should try to estimate the actual time it will take you for the 200 as your seed time (and of course it's nice to let the rest of your heat in on your plan to only swim the first 100 fast).
edit: yeah, what Jeff said ^^
Sorry, I just got your question.
This weekend I'm entering the 500 free, but I'm doing 400IM, so I entered my time accordingly: my 400 time plus an easy 100 free.
Sorry, I didn't ready your question correctly.
:chug:
I think as a meet director, you are responsible for your results for far more than 2-3 days after your meet is over. If you don't have access to Meet Manager, you should have a report electronically or in hardcopy that has all of the full split printouts from your meet. (Most of them get posted online anyways.)
I'm currently investigating a final time inquiry from a meet that took place a full year ago. Swimmer says their 1650 time was really a 1700 time, and that they swam an extra 50. I'm doing through the archives to determine whatever we can determine.
And again... this is separate from any other paperwork rules that may be required for records, etc. This is simply for "official time". For a time to be a record or a top-ten time, it must first be an official time, and may also need to satisfy other requirements. But the first is "official time".
At the very basic level... my understanding is that for USMS nationals, your entry times are supposed to be "official times". I don't think those get verified (do they?)... but technically speaking, you would not be permitted to use your 500 split as an entry time for nationals if you didn't go through this administrivia to make it an "official time".
-Rick
This weekend I'm entering the 500 free, but I'm doing 400IM, so I entered my time accordingly: my 400 time plus an easy 100 free.
My understanding is this would NOT count as an official 400 IM (split request or not), correct?
My understanding is this would NOT count as an official 400 IM (split request or not), correct?
Correct. A valid initial distance must be in the stroke of the race. So the 400 split in a 500 free is merely a 400 free. A swimmer is free to use it as a "personal best" mark, etc. But it would not be eligible for top ten, records, etc.
(Technically, I think you couldn't use it as a seed time in another meet. But I don't think anyone is splitting hairs that small.)
-Rick
The latter. I suggest the same thing swimmers should always do: enter with the time they expect to do in that particular swim. Timelines are created based on seed times. So if you enter the 200 free and are really going for a split request for the 50, you should enter with the time you expect to finish that 200. If you enter with your best time in the 200 and then proceed to go 2 minutes slower than that time, shame on you for screwing up the timeline and holding up the meet...
I think this makes sense. The converse also perplexes me, say you put a 2:20 for your 200 but swim the first 100 in :50 and the balance in the next 100. Doesn't that adversely impact those in your heat also, seeing the rabbit go out. I know, I know, swim your own race but we all look around a little bit.
I think this makes sense. The converse also perplexes me, say you put a 2:20 for your 200 but swim the first 100 in :50 and the balance in the next 100. Doesn't that adversely impact those in your heat also, seeing the rabbit go out. I know, I know, swim your own race but we all look around a little bit.
This is why you are encouraged to tell the referee, so that it can be announced before the race. Rule 103.8.3(B) allows (but does not require) the starter to announce that someone is going for a split in an initial distance.
It would also be good sportsmanship for the swimmer in question to merely advise those swimmers around "Hey - just so you know, I'm going for the 100 split, so I'll be out really fast." That goes a long way.
One thing this brings up is that there are two different (I think) types of "initial distance" splits. There are those that you go out for, and those that you get in the matter of normal swimming.
For example, in the 1650 freestyle.... You could go all-out for the first 50 to get your 50 split, and then swim a 1600 warmdown afterward. Or, you could swim the 1650 as a normal swim, and look to get your 500 and 1000 splits along the way... but you're still looking for a "good" 1650 time.
The initial distance situations I'm thinking more about (in this thread) are the latter... especially since many of these "accidental" early splits might not be as intentional.
If you're going for a 100 split in the 200 free... you know you're going after it. To me, that's a different situation. (Though isn't, and shouldn't be, treated any different from a rules perspective.)
-Rick
