Learning butterfly and breastroke is really awkward for me

On fly , think of it as 2 arm free. Try to kick at the end of the 2 arm pull & just after you return your arms into the water ahead of you , then coast for a second. Also try breathing on the side that you do for free, it keeps youe head down & youe hips up. Good luck

Re: ***,it's hard to know the problem without seeing your stroke,can you post a video.I have 2 ideas which to approachthe problem from each end. First try working on timing by breaststroke pull/dolphin kick with fins.Don't use little fins like zoomers,use big enough fins to get the feel of push from your legs. Second,start with just kick with your arms forward.Then add a small scull as you keep focusing on your kick.When that feels smooth make the scull a little bigger.Keep slowly making your pull larger until it is where you want it(but be aware that most beginners want to pull too far back on the BR pull,your hands should never be pulled below your shoulders.

When learning butterfly I prefer that a person does not even think of the kick. Let the legs drift behind and concentrate on the arms. Clean exit at the finish, clean on the recovery, clean entry at the front. Let the legs move up and down as they please. You may find out that it is easier to start with a one beat kick then change to 2 little beats.

...I say I'm practicing dolphin kick, and they say, "well don't practice that if you want to learn butterfly", and then I say, "well what should I practice?" and they say, "butterfly kick", and then everyone just gets really confused. Anyway, I have trouble integrating the arms into the dolphin kick motion. I also have trouble getting my arms high enough above the water.... Breastroke I can do, although my kick is horrible, so it's primarily my arms pulling me through the water...quote] I think you might have a timing problem. I'm not sure why the lifeguards at your pool think there's a separate "butterfly" kick, but dolphin kick is what you want to be using. Press your chest down and forward, let your legs whip down (like shaking a garden hose) and then wait for your legs to start going back up to the surface before sculling your hands out to the sides. When you can feel your chest start to surface again, that's when you make your "catch" and as your body moves forward over the surface, that's when your arms recover for the next stroke. Since you're already above the surface, you don't have to work hard at all to get the arms above the water. It may work best to work on the individual parts of the stroke. Start with dolphining while thrusting your fingertips forward and gradually add more bits until you have the complete stroke. Be sure to breath early, just as soon as your face clears the water, and avoid lifting your head. Timing might be your breaststroke problem as well. You want to be kicking just a split second after your hands shoot forward. Don't lose hope. I figure if I could learn butterfly at age 44 and finally get a better *** stroke at 49, anyone can.

It is my strongly held opinion that unless a swimmer already has an effective dolphin kick then learning fly starting with the dolphin kick without fins is a recipe for discouragement. I think that for anyone that is having problems getting the basic feel of the stroke the best advice is to put on some fins. That will give you the forward speed necessary for the rest of the stroke to work. Most people will "get" butterfly fairly quickly with fins on, and can then carry that back to swimming without fins.

I'm with George and the others who think that timing is everything and when the kick is put in the wrong place, it spells trouble. There are two kicks during every cycle of the arms. Think of the arms seperating at the front of the body as the place where a secondary (smaller kick) occurs. And then think of the arms near your belly-button as the push water back (this is where the breath and the primary (biggest kick) occurs. If you don't try to bring your hands out of the water, and try to position the kicks at the correct time, learning the fly can be much more fun. By itself, the kick can destroy timing when it's done at the wrong time. When the arms seperate, the head is low and the chest should move lower (toward the bottom of the pool). The fluency of the stroke will depend upon your pulling pattern (hour-glass shape) and where you place your kicks. If you can feel like your body-surfing when you take your breath (under and past your belly-button) you'll begin to become comfortable enough to start bringing your arms ( straight and parallel to the bottom of the pool) out of the water. Please go to youtube and type in Swimming + butterfly + underwater to see Olympians perform the stroke. You'll notice that everyone is swimming underwater from the beginning of their pulls and the head is deep (chest is deeper). That's it in a nutshell and remember if you're patient and work on timing, it can be fun and not frustrating. Good luck Coach T.

Great question! Knowing when to bring the legs up so they're chambered and ready to kick is important to a fast breaststroke. From the extended position, after the completion of the kick, the legs begin the path to a (cocked and loaded) position right when the head is coming up for the breath (2/3rds thru the pull). At the highest position of the head and right after complete inhalation, the kick should already be chambered. Now, personally, I have found that I have to get my head very high because my butt is too buoyant and my feet will come out of the water. I have a cue that I use that may be helpful, try it and tell me what you think. As I begin my scull inward, I hunch my shoulders and as I hunch I'm at the final stage of chambering my kick. I can't tell you the amount of time I spend working on timing. As a breaststroker it's not hard to turn from Dr. Jekyll to Mr. Hyde. Timing is so difficult I had to come up with a cue that works for me (the hunching works for me). I swim 25's from a push-off and am a consistent 17 sec (I want to hit a 16 someday) but when my timing is off, I'm in the 18's. It's very frustrating. Your cues can be different but I think all breaststrokers need them. Good luck! Coach T.

Now for the Breaststroke! This "nutshell" explaination should be replaced by watching a good breaststroke video (GoSwim has some great ones) but here goes. The kick can be one of the most difficult skills to acquire and if you have it then timing comes next, followed by the pull and breathing. Turns are a separate issue but all can be tackled during each practice. I think you should begin by watching the underwater video of Brendan Hansen who is one of the fastest breaststrokers in the world. Keep a keen eye on the outward press (with locked elbows) at the very start of the pull. The start of each pull begins when the kick is finishing so momentum is continuous ( an extension of the body is pronounced after the kick). The breath comes when the arms are 1/2 to 3/4 through the pull. The knee-caps point to the bottom of the pool as the heels are drawn up toward the butt (a chambered position) ready to kick back. The knees are approximately two to three fists apart (flexibility will dictate adjustments) while the feet should be wider (also dictated by an individual's flexibility) than the knees. You can begin timing your kick and pull separately so you can document improvement and evaluate your efficiency. Knee joints can be traumatized by too much kicking so ease into it. A great drill to help streamlining and tempo is 2 kicks to 1 pull routine. Take your time and you'll get the hang of it. Good luck, Coach T.

Now for the Breaststroke! This "nutshell" explaination should be replaced by watching a good breaststroke video (GoSwim has some great ones) but here goes. The kick can be one of the most difficult skills to acquire and if you have it then timing comes next, followed by the pull and breathing. Turns are a separate issue but all can be tackled during each practice. I think you should begin by watching the underwater video of Brendan Hansen who is one of the fastest breaststrokers in the world. Keep a keen eye on the outward press (with locked elbows) at the very start of the pull. The start of each pull begins when the kick is finishing so momentum is continuous ( an extension of the body is pronounced after the kick). The breath comes when the arms are 1/2 to 3/4 through the pull. The knee-caps point to the bottom of the pool as the heels are drawn up toward the butt (a chambered position) ready to kick back. The knees are approximately two to three fists apart (flexibility will dictate adjustments) while the feet should be wider (also dictated by an individual's flexibility) than the knees. You can begin timing your kick and pull separately so you can document improvement and evaluate your efficiency. Knee joints can be traumatized by too much kicking so ease into it. A great drill to help streamlining and tempo is 2 kicks to 1 pull routine. Take your time and you'll get the hang of it. Good luck, Coach T. When do you start to pull up, or "chamber", your legs - as you are breathing or as your lunge into your streamline or after you have reached streamline?

When I was learning Fly, my coach, A. Fish, said to think of the under water arm movement of their arms as the shape men make when trying to outline the curves of a woman as they arre saying "Oa-La-La."