Learning butterfly and breastroke is really awkward for me
Former Member
I will go out on a limb and say I have "mastered" back and free in a beginner-ish, efficient swimming, "looks good and feels good" kind of way.
*** and fly have been a lot more challenging, although in fairness I've also spent less time on them.
I can "dolphin kick" across the pool underwater without any problems. (As a strange aside, the lifeguards thing it's weird when I do this and call it "the wave" and don't associate it with butterfly at all.)
I say I'm practicing dolphin kick, and they say, "well don't practice that if you want to learn butterfly", and then I say, "well what should I practice?" and they say, "butterfly kick", and then everyone just gets really confused.
Anyway, I have trouble integrating the arms into the dolphin kick motion. I also have trouble getting my arms high enough above the water. I really don't understand the entire stroke and I feel like I'd never be able to learn it.
Breastroke I can do, although my kick is horrible, so it's primarily my arms pulling me through the water.
Many o' teachers have tried to fix my whip kick. I can do it just fine on the deck. I can do it just fine if I "watch" my feet in the water. And I can do it well underwater.
But for some reason, when I integrate it full stroke, and especially near the surface of the water, I get almost no power from my kick.
It's all very frustrating...
Former Member
My kick isn't pathetic but I can pull a 100 in 1:39 and my kick is about 15 seconds slower. My start is another sore point (I don't get very far) and I don't think it's my streamlining, I think I simply have punny legs. Good luck fellow breaststrokers. Coach T.
Great question! Knowing when to bring the legs up so they're chambered and ready to kick is important to a fast breaststroke. From the extended position, after the completion of the kick, the legs begin the path to a (cocked and loaded) position right when the head is coming up for the breath (2/3rds thru the pull). At the highest position of the head and right after complete inhalation, the kick should already be chambered. Now, personally, I have found that I have to get my head very high because my butt is too buoyant and my feet will come out of the water. I have a cue that I use that may be helpful, try it and tell me what you think. As I begin my scull inward, I hunch my shoulders and as I hunch I'm at the final stage of chambering my kick.
I can't tell you the amount of time I spend working on timing. As a breaststroker it's not hard to turn from Dr. Jekyll to Mr. Hyde. Timing is so difficult I had to come up with a cue that works for me (the hunching works for me).
I swim 25's from a push-off and am a consistent 17 sec (I want to hit a 16 someday) but when my timing is off, I'm in the 18's. It's very frustrating. Your cues can be different but I think all breaststrokers need them. Good luck! Coach T.
I tried the timing with the "hunch" today - it worked well; I think I'm chambering my legs at the right time already but this made me focus more on my shoulders rolling forward and helped my stroke as well. Thanks.
My own timing difficulty is kicking; If I don't focus all of my feeble brain on the kick-timing my natural tendency is to do it too soon; ie with my lunge rather than waiting till I'm submerged and in streamline. Hopefully, this will become natural as I keep practicing it.
Great discription of the underwater movement. But that woman must be shapely not Twiggy like. When I was learning Fly, my coach, A. Fish, said to think of the under water arm movement of their arms as the shape men make when trying to outline the curves of a woman as they arre saying "Oa-La-La."
