Dara Torres-Amazing

This whole argument is about human physiology in my opinion. By limiting our scope to elite athletes we are looking at such a small piece of the human population pie that it's obscene. I realize this seems to be the only thing to really compare to but are the conclusions drawn from such comparisons valuable? No would be my answer. We must realize that amongst the population there are likely thousands upon thousands of people with the potential to be world class athletes if they chose to develop themselves in the correct sport. This whole idea of comparing Dara to the sports icons in our heads is a gross oversimplification of a much more complex issue. Fair enough. Then who do we compare her against? Ourselves? LOL. Hypothetical unknowns? Geek? Ande? You've at least got to look at other "professionals." Nolan Ryan was amazing! I think he was 42 when he retired. He got better with age, more control.

who is the enigmatic White Buffalo? The variance in the current WR between a male and female is at least 5.15 seconds if you count Lenton's 52.99 draft 100 meter free next to Phelps in relation to Hoogie's 47.84. If you do not count the draft swim, it is greater than 5.5 seconds. If you look at the Master's WR for men 40 to 44 in the 100 meter freestyle, Rich Saeger (an Olympic Gold medalist), he is barely a second ahead of Ms. Torres. After next year it will probably be a half a second or .5. The statistical probability of this is virtually impossible without drugs. These drugs do not have to be HGH, which is not tested for, as it could simply be insulin or an entire myraid of drugs that get by testing. The mantra that "I am tested and it was negative" rings hollow post the Tour de France. Of course there is no direct evidence, such as standing out in the rain. However, when inside and someone walks in soaking wet, the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming that it is raining outside. Here is the short list of circumstantial evidence that it is raining: -she never won an individual medal until age 33 at the 2000 Olympics ; -she put on 20 pounds of lean muscle mass in a year before the 2000 Olympics; -she is doing lifetime bests at age 40; -she sat out 6 years from 2000 to 2006; -she attributes her post 40 success to what? The great thing in America is the freedom to believe what you want to believe. However, if she is doing this, why has no other male or female ever even approached this level of success (National Champion doing life time bests) after the age of 40 in a 100? Swimmers that post can hold onto their belief that she is clean, just like Barry Bonds whose head and feet grew in size incredibly in his late 30's due to HGH usage, but there is no doubt in my mind that she is not clean as she is using performance enhancing Drugs/ supplements beyond creatine.

Maybe women are just superior and age better than men? :mooning: Clemens is a maniac. A fitness nut and a huge weightlifter. His bulk and dedication probably saved those itsy bitsy RCs from earlier ruin. Didn't Torres have shoulder problems that made her minimize fly time in the water? How did she get over her shoulder issues?

Um, every single one I mentioned. Do you live under a sport's rock? No, I live in the Chicago area thank you. How many of those can really be compared to Dara. To have walked away for 6-7 years, but stayed in great shape. Then try to come back. There may be some real phsyical benefits in the breaks she takes so her body can heal. Also comparing it basketball players that never left or even those that did is still not valid in my mind because the pounding up and down the court takes it's toll. There's also a lot more traveling involved. Basketball cannot really be compared to sprinting 50s and 100s. Elway is different too because of the toll football takes on your body. More so for linemen than quarterbacks, but still. It's a lot more brutal than swimming. The possible best other sport comparison might be baseball. Clemens is unreal, too. Again though the constant traveling has an effect, too. I think that is a big part of what wears pro athletes out.

while Saeger is a great swimmer, I agree that comparing him to Dara isn't accurate Dara went 54.4 in the 100 LCM free the womens world record is 53.30 for a man to do what Dara has done, he would need to be 40 and swim the 100 LCM free around 48.8 Rich went 53, which is a far cry from 48.8 In the coming years, the first man who might be capable of such a feat is Neil Walker. Since he is one of the older Olympic level athletes who is still training hard. There aren't very many athletes who could retire for 4, 5, or 6 years then make the kind of remarkable comeback that Dara made. I don't know if Neil plans on retiring after 2008. A

Geek, how many have really tried? Um, every single one I mentioned. Do you live under a sport's rock?

Thus far, in this thread, no one has yet to name a single athlete that has done or is doing what she is either doing or may be about to do, not a single one. Maybe she is the 1 out of 4 billion or so who can do it and be the first ever and more power to her. As she continues her incredible odyssey in the next year, don't come back all disenchanted when she says she uses "alternative, ground breaking training methods." That's your code word should you hear it. This is correct. She would be the only one. To get back to basics. As to unique training methods, I'm not sure what I think about that. Sprinters can/do train much differently. But the "less is more" motto seems to be an overstatement. She's doing a lot of strength and core training and high quality sprint work. That's great. But, still, everyone else is, to quote Phelps from the other night, putting in "hard work" in the pool. She's certainly working hard ... what's with the 2 hours of stretching per day? Not sure if I believe that's the source of the fountain of youth ... although I think she has stressed that she believes it makes a huge difference.

I think we've all been burned too many times on this type of scenario. Thus far, in this thread, no one has yet to name a single athlete that has done or is doing what she is either doing or may be about to do, not a single one. Maybe she is the 1 out of 4 billion or so who can do it and be the first ever and more power to her. John Elway might be an example, although he never retired. Dale Ernhardt might be an example, although he died trying to keep up with the young ones (sorry, I live in Charlotte, have to throw in some Nascar). Maybe a case could be made for Muhammed Ali and George Forman, if you choose to put faith in boxing. Roger Clemens is a potential example, he's pretty awesome. But, the fact remains, there are carcasses of 40 something former elites all over the place (Barkley, Jordan, Randy Johnson, Spitz, Stud). As she continues her incredible odyssey in the next year, don't come back all disenchanted when she says she uses "alternative, ground breaking training methods." That's your code word should you hear it. As to little punk Stud, if I can figure out how to ride my new TRI BIKE (there you go Smiths), I'm gonna find him and run him over - shouldn't be hard given his average speed of movement. Geek, how many have really tried?

Is it the cynicism or the standing up for myself part? Or the fast walking? The entertainment in arguing? The obvious rhetorical brilliance? The fact that I get better insults from the eighty-year-olds on the subway? God, I am so confused. I'm all for agreeing to disagree and was trying to get away from personal attacks and go back to the basis of the thread. If you think I'm going to sit by and get attacked you have another thing coming. I am entitled to think what I want to think that in no way gives you the right to insult me for being optimistic. I was not the only one that asked how many Olympic medals do you have - which I intended to speak more to the fact that Dara has 9 of them - rather than to start a let's compare times thread. I question people that all of a sudden pull of amazing times more than those that have always had tons of talent and swum fast. I believe in innocent until proven guilty especially in instances like these. I do not think that she is doping for plenty of reasons, and even if I had no real thoughts to back it up who cares. I get think what I want. PS - it's the cynicism. I walk fast.

I think we've all been burned too many times on this type of scenario. Thus far, in this thread, no one has yet to name a single athlete that has done or is doing what she is either doing or may be about to do, not a single one. Maybe she is the 1 out of 4 billion or so who can do it and be the first ever and more power to her. John Elway might be an example, although he never retired. Dale Ernhardt might be an example, although he died trying to keep up with the young ones (sorry, I live in Charlotte, have to throw in some Nascar). Maybe a case could be made for Muhammed Ali and George Forman, if you choose to put faith in boxing. Roger Clemens is a potential example, he's pretty awesome. But, the fact remains, there are carcasses of 40 something former elites all over the place (Barkley, Jordan, Randy Johnson, Spitz, Stud). As she continues her incredible odyssey in the next year, don't come back all disenchanted when she says she uses "alternative, ground breaking training methods." That's your code word should you hear it. As to little punk Stud, if I can figure out how to ride my new TRI BIKE (there you go Smiths), I'm gonna find him and run him over - shouldn't be hard given his average speed of movement.