Dara Torres-Amazing

Hello everyone! I'm relatively new to this forum, and I've been informed that 30 postings are needed in order to have a custom avatar... So I might as well join the busy thread... Hmmm... What can I say that hasn't already been said? Here... Why would a master want to cheat? Trying to be under a minute for 100 free when you're 70 requires years of positive lifestyle choices, and there is no way to reach that goal without living the good life... Dara Torres has her whole life to live, and at 40, she probably understands the health risks of banned substances, so why logically could anyone assume that she is? Dara Torres is an inspiration...:notworthy:

But at the end of all this, all these 'elite' athletes are are physically gifted human beings. Sometimes I think that our societies values are just a _little_ skewed. Would I love to be able to do what some of these individuals can do? Yes. Then again, I would love to be able to find a cure for cancer, AIDS or one of the other thousand things that folks who aren't elite athletes work on every day. But those folks don't seem to attract our admiration in the way that these athletes do. Which is tragic. So please, at end of the day, try to keep things in perspective. Sorry, I'll put away the soapbox now. Paul

most people train to train instead of training to race I need to do more flat starts ande I would actually disagree about masters athletes and how they train. I travel all over the US and train with dozens of teams each year and there is one single constant; the majority of competitive masters swimmers overtrain and focus to much time on volumne and not enough in quality race prep training.. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I hear "I'm trying to get into shape" or "I can't go to a meet until I get a base". What Dara is doing and teams like The Race Club as well as a few others in masters swimming is recognizing that time spent in the water should be high quality, race pace and a focus on perfect technique...aerobic base training is better attained thru things like spin classes. Chris Carmichael was recently interviewed and said the biggest mistake recreational athletes with limited time do is low level aerobic work...given limited time he recommends extremely high intensity practice....try telling that to the soccer mom/dad you see on the elliptical at the gym every morning with the level set at 5! Additionally the lack of attention to flexibility amongst our peers is staggering. Its funny that each year at nationals I talk to at least a half dozen swimmers who STARTED stretching the week before the meet and pulled something...even more get injured because they have done nothing in this area then attempt to go 100% effort in multiple events over multiple days and staring something. Starts is probably the most neglected thing....people wait to practice them the week before a meet rather than do them at every practice then STOP doing them a week before the meet to rest the legs. I would encourage everyone who is interested in competition to really change things up for one 5-6 month training cycle and see what happens. If you can overcome the mental side of reducing Additionally and trusting your training and REALLY resting you might be surprised at the results.

aerobic base training is better attained thru things like spin classes. I think what you're getting at is that if you're in the pool just a few hours per week you should concentrate on race-pace and technique training rather than aerobic or "long slow distance" training, and I agree. I would, however, disagree that base training is better attained through something like a spin class, though. What's your basis for this?

I would actually disagree about masters athletes and how they train. I travel all over the US and train with dozens of teams each year and there is one single constant; the majority of competitive masters swimmers overtrain and focus to much time on volumne and not enough in quality race prep training.. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I hear "I'm trying to get into shape" or "I can't go to a meet until I get a base". What Dara is doing and teams like The Race Club as well as a few others in masters swimming is recognizing that time spent in the water should be high quality, race pace and a focus on perfect technique...aerobic base training is better attained thru things like spin classes. Chris Carmichael was recently interviewed and said the biggest mistake recreational athletes with limited time do is low level aerobic work...given limited time he recommends extremely high intensity practice....try telling that to the soccer mom/dad you see on the elliptical at the gym every morning with the level set at 5! Additionally the lack of attention to flexibility amongst our peers is staggering. Its funny that each year at nationals I talk to at least a half dozen swimmers who STARTED stretching the week before the meet and pulled something...even more get injured because they have done nothing in this area then attempt to go 100% effort in multiple events over multiple days and staring something. I wonder if most masters swimmer take the approach you've observed because: (1) they're used to it; (2) that's how their teams train; (3) they simply prefer it to race pace work; and/or (4) they're focused on longer distances, as Dave notes. Seems that most would know from casual reading that race pace and core work is critical for competitive distances of 200 or less, if that's what they wanted to do. On the other hand, I agree that I have seen quite a few sprinters ('t know any masters in the gym 90 minutes, in the pool 90 minutes and on the massage table 60 minutes 5-6 x per week. That's 4 hours per day, not counting transtition time and re-fueling! Dave: I'm only training for 50s and 100s. :thhbbb: No time for yoga. Too busy running for some aerobic work.

Yes. These FINA rules apply to all athletes. At this time testing of Masters athletes has not been implemented. But just because FINA is not testing Masters does not make it legal, right or fair. Is there a list of banned substances for Masters Swimming? If not how do we have a rule against banned substances? Also, if they don't test, how can it be illegal. I also agree about being right or fair. Call me a cyninc, but I think there are a few who do compete in this organization that don't care. I think they just want to win at any cost. To each his own...:dedhorse:

What I am much more interested in is the alternative hypothesis: if she isn't cheating, what is she doing DIFFERENTLY that could account for her performance? I do recall that one of Ande's tip's suggest we change SOMETHING to get different results. I doubt that spending less time in the pool (relative to collegiate standards) and spending more time on core strengthening and resistance training is all that unique among master's athletes. From reading the NYTimes article, its clear that her nearly constant use of massage therapists is very unique; who among us could afford TWO full time therapists? I have no idea if this can be the critical factor. I would actually disagree about masters athletes and how they train. I travel all over the US and train with dozens of teams each year and there is one single constant; the majority of competitive masters swimmers overtrain and focus to much time on volumne and not enough in quality race prep training.. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I hear "I'm trying to get into shape" or "I can't go to a meet until I get a base". What Dara is doing and teams like The Race Club as well as a few others in masters swimming is recognizing that time spent in the water should be high quality, race pace and a focus on perfect technique...aerobic base training is better attained thru things like spin classes. Chris Carmichael was recently interviewed and said the biggest mistake recreational athletes with limited time do is low level aerobic work...given limited time he recommends extremely high intensity practice....try telling that to the soccer mom/dad you see on the elliptical at the gym every morning with the level set at 5! Additionally the lack of attention to flexibility amongst our peers is staggering. Its funny that each year at nationals I talk to at least a half dozen swimmers who STARTED stretching the week before the meet and pulled something...even more get injured because they have done nothing in this area then attempt to go 100% effort in multiple events over multiple days and staring something. Starts is probably the most neglected thing....people wait to practice them the week before a meet rather than do them at every practice then STOP doing them a week before the meet to rest the legs. I would encourage everyone who is interested in competition to really change things up for one 5-6 month training cycle and see what happens. If you can overcome the mental side of reducing Additionally and trusting your training and REALLY resting you might be surprised at the results.

I have been unable to find any direct reference to performance enhancing drugs in our rule book. Is this an oversight, or is it to be inferred or assumed that their use is prohibited?

looks like a solid plan ande Quicksilver & Tom, As for how to set up a training cycle with 4 days a week available let me give you an idea how I will prep for Austin starting December 1st: - Approx. 5 month/20 weeks cycle s follows: 1) 7 weeks of high aerobic base training mainly from 3x a week spin classes or riding, 2-3x a week in the water swimming no more than about 3000m (I train for the 200 so most workouts are middle distance but even in this phase do 2-6 starts after practive 1-2x a week and some speed work (fast 25's no breath after practice to ekkp up tempo "feel"), one of these days will probably be playing water polo, yoga 2x a week, weights 1x a week. 2) 6 weeks of higher intensity swimming, short rest intervals, broken swims, meet every weekend that I can find one. Keep cycling/swimming 2x a week, same number of days of yoga/weights but move to more dynamic work; plyo's, stability balls, etc. 3) 4 weeks of high quality race prep wokouts, lots of tempo work, power work (fins and paddles, bungee's, power racks)....same schedule of cycle/yoga/weights. Start turn focus using running dives into pool into turns to simulate race speed. 4) 3 weeks of "taper": stop lifting, stop cycling, yoga 3x a week, lots of quality swims keeping yardage the same for the first 7 days with more rest, the last 14 days begin to lower yardage ech workout, if feeling good get in 2-3 very fast swims with lots of longer (300-600 yard swims) hypoxic recovery (I usually use a snorkel), the last week I stay off stairs if at all possible, no more starts, high qulity 25's no breath and lots of drill work....If i've done my job I've "banked" evrything and now is the time to relax and rest and TRUST thatI'm ready.....then see what happens!

Is it against the rules for masters swimmers to use performance enhancing drugs? No.