Post-Grads in U.S. Masters Swimming Events

Agree with 100% inclusive participation for all elite USA and international swimmers. But, just so that those few who can't handle, reconcile, or rationalize in their minds that certain people will show up and blow everyone away, let's give little trophies to everyone, the coaches, the timers, and the officials. Because everyone's a winner!!!! Unfortunately, concessions volunteers will only get a water bottle and keychain. Sorry, no trophy for you. And don't even go down the path of starting a new forum thread about whether you should get a trophy or not. Just kidding! Here's a great article where I stole the trophy comment: www.wsj.com/.../SB10001424127887324235104578241961511333962

Chris, what is the current rule regarding masters WORLD records? For some reason, I thought there was a very significant difference - that USMS NATIONAL records could be set while as a USA swimmer, but not FINA masters world records - am I wrong on this? Please enlighten us so that we are responding based on the current rules in place for FINA and USMS. USMS and FINA have different philosophies on this point. USMS allows national records in non-masters meets, and "automatically recognizes" USA-S meets for purposes of Top 10 and records. FINA does not allow masters world records or world rankings to be set achieved at non-masters meets, including USA-S meets or non-masters international meets. This difference in philosophy also manifests in the fact that, for FINA, "masters" begins at 25 and not 18: there are no records or rankings for 18-24 ages. There is no 18-24 age group at all, and in relays there can be no person younger than 25 even if the sum total of the ages falls in a "legit" relay age group. My short answer is: Yes, to the extent allowed under current rules. And if not allowed under current rules, then I hope rules change to allow a broader range of swims to be allowed as world masters records. The rules are actually a little hazy on the point of whether swims at non-masters intenational meets count for USMS purposes. I agree they should be clarified. My purpose in asking the question was to get a sense of the feeling of the people here...because there has been a request for the Executive Committee to recognize just such a non-masters international meet (this is allowed under the rules).

I guess I think a masters record should be set at a masters meet, but I can't say I feel all that strongly about it.

If there is a problem within USMS that needs to be addressed relative to competition, it's not one of having "too much" competition at the meets. I think it's the opposite - why don't we have a larger percentage of the USMS membership competing? When I compare the turnout at my wife's local running events versus our local Masters meets, it's an order of magnitude difference. When I talk to many USMS coaches, many of whom try to encourage their members to compete, many of them complain about a lack of desire by their members to compete. I think the question to address is why so many Masters swimmers do not compete? Your first question has been asked many, many times here on the USMS forums, but in the ~17 years I've been registered with USMS, swimming with USMS teams, and a member here on the forums, I've never seen a formal survey (put out by either USMS or our LMSC) asking for input. My conclusion is that no one is interested in the results. In my years of swimming with different USMS teams, I've never once been asked by a coach why I choose to swim in a meet, or opt not to. Again, I assume that the coach isn't interested. Your second question makes no sense. The closest comparison to a road race would be an open water swim event. How many masters track meets has your wife competed in over the past year? I think they have a similar, "problem." as USMS does with meets.

As a moderately fast Masters swimmer, I love it when big name swimmers show up at meets. I had a chance to chat with Cullen Jones in 2012 and Jason Lezak in 2013, and they are great. The energy they bring to the pool deck is quite tangible, and how many people get a chance to say they swam at a meet with an active Olympian? ...On the other hand, being in the 25-29 age group, it is kind of frustrating knowing that I'd more or less have to be a pro swimmer, and a darn good one at that, to have a chance at taking down a USMS record (not that I'm even remotely close, or even in the same zip code, just talking hypothetically). If it were up to me, I would continue to encourage ALL USMS members to swim in our meets. However, the caveat would be that if you are an active pro swimmer, or are on any sort of US national team, you cannot set a USMS record. American/Open/World records are fair game (provided the competition meets the sanctioning requirements), but USMS records are not. If Michael Phelps were to re-retire tomorrow, he would be eligible to set any and all USMS records he wants, but not while he is still a pro/US National team member. I guess my personal case in point was Adrian's 100 free at Santa Clara last year. How on earth is anyone who is not a pro swimmer/Nat team member going to come close to that USMS record?

Let me ask a slightly different version of this question. Say a USMS member swims for the U.S. national team in international competition and breaks a USMS record under conditions that are clearly legit (in terms of measurements etc...think Dara Torres at the Olympics). Should this time count as a new masters record? Why or why not?

In my years of swimming with different USMS teams, I've never once been asked by a coach why I choose to swim in a meet, or opt not to. Again, I assume that the coach isn't interested. I would assume the coach just believes people have their reasons. I think it's great for coaches to encourage swimmers to compete, but on the other hand, they probably don't want to discourage those who aren't interested in competing.

I would assume the coach just believes people have their reasons. I think it's great for coaches to encourage swimmers to compete, but on the other hand, they probably don't want to discourage those who aren't interested in competing. We have a fairly large group of masters swimmers yet at spring nationals in Indianapolis in 2013 I was one of two team members Who competed. Our coach has been encouraging everyone to compete and at world's last year we had 9 swimmers and it looks like we will have 25+ at the upcoming Spring nationals. I have heard my own team mates fearing the unknowns associated with a masters meet. The most common reasons my team mates are reluctant to compete is they feel like they are not fast enough and they don't want to be embarrassed either not finishing a race or being disqualified. Our whole team has been encouraging people to compete and we have held after meet parties to share experiences and talk about how fun the meets are. We are planning to have a great time in San Antonio and our number one team goal is to have fun. On the original question I think everyone should be eligible and I believe a record is a record no matter where and under whose sanction it occurred. I swim USAS pretty frequently and have had several swims where the pool is not on USMS record for measurement and the times don't qualify for top 10. I find this a little silly since the pool is sanctioned by usas and the pools measurements are on record with them. At the end of the day it's more annoying than anything else and really not a big deal but thought I would share.

Let me ask a slightly different version of this question. Say a USMS member swims for the U.S. national team in international competition and breaks a USMS record under conditions that are clearly legit (in terms of measurements etc...think Dara Torres at the Olympics). Should this time count as a new masters record? Why or why not? Chris, what is the current rule regarding masters WORLD records? For some reason, I thought there was a very significant difference - that USMS NATIONAL records could be set while as a USA swimmer, but not FINA masters world records - am I wrong on this? Please enlighten us so that we are responding based on the current rules in place for FINA and USMS. My short answer is: Yes, to the extent allowed under current rules. And if not allowed under current rules, then I hope rules change to allow a broader range of swims to be allowed as world masters records.

+1 People have no problem running a 5k simultaneously with people who literally run it in half their time. Is it the blocks, getting up there with no more than nine other people, with no crowd to hide in? I don't get it. No matter how badly I get beat - and I've been beaten pretty badly, by world record holders, two Olympians in the same heat once, NCAA champions, women, men - all I ever get is positivity afterward. The anonymity of running in a huge crowd is much less threatening than standing on the blocks in a swimsuit with only 7 other swimmers in your heat. No one would really notice if you started walking or dropped out of the race completely in a 5k. You'd be much more likely to feel on display if that happened in a swim meet. I completely understand why newer swimmers are intimidated by meets. That said, I think it would be crazy to disallow people because they are "too fast."