Darian Townsend entered a masters meet in Mesa over the weekend and broke five world records in the 25-29 age group. This was Townsend's first masters meet. For those of you who are not familiar with him, Townend is a three-time Olympian and gold medalist from South Africa.
Swimswam.com posted a story about Townend's incredible meet. Here's the link: swimswam.com/.../
I found the comments quite interesting especially this one by "HMMM":
I have no problem with athletes making money off of Masters but why have a separate division called Masters if there are no rules or restrictions? None of the sponsored people you mention in their 50′s are training for Rio are they?. Most people in Masters believe they are swimming against recreational swimmers which is why there is a separate Masters division and those records are set by recreational/retired swimmers. If Phelps remains retired and wants to swim Masters, well there goes a few records in his age group but none of us in our club would have a problem with it. We discussed that very subject this morning after practice and Phelps, like Rowdy Gaines is retired and would welcome him. Many of us have swam against and met Rowdy and it is a true honor to share the pool with him in a Masters meet. But our entire team would have a huge problem if Lochte decides to swim a Masters meet while he is still fully training for the Olympics and blows all the records out of the water. If Lochte swims 12 events, he is going to walk away with 12 records. Why have a separate record book? If he can do that, you might as well just call us all USA swimmers and do away with the Masters division. There are meets where fully training pros swim and they are called Grand Prix’s, Nationals, and Worlds. Call us old fashioned, call us Masters swimmers, but we all think Masters should be separate from the training pros..
So I'm curious what the rest of you think. Should someone like Darian Townend or Ryan Lochte be allowed to swim in masters meets when they are professional swimmers who are training full-time? And maybe "allowed" is a poor choice or word. The bottom line is do you think they have any business swimming masters meets?
Who would monitor a list of, "National Team Members," to ensure that they aren't eligible for USMS records?
I've run several marathons, half marathons, and a few cycling events. I have several friends who have done multiple triathlons. At least in those sports (I'm not sure about every sport), everyone is all lumped together in any rankings. So long as one runs a marathon that is approved by the Boston Qualifying committee (I know there's some specific term for it), and they run xxxx time, they can run at Boston, if they register. There are similar forumlas for who gets invited to the Kona Ironman.
Most USMS meets that I've been to and heard about attract so few swimmers that I think we should be thinking of ways to increase who swims at them, and certainly not the opposite. Heck, we've had several meets cancel because of a lack of registration.
The question isn't whether or not you agree with National and World Class elite swimmers participating in Masters meets.
It's why they would want to participate ........ :-)
What is wrong with split requesting, other than being annoying?
Some would argue that split requesting, like sand bagging, is self serving. If you want a time for, say, the 100 free, then you should enter that event. Or so the argument goes.
I don't believe that masters track and field prohibits professional athletes or national team members from setting age group records, but the minimum age to compete as a masters athlete in track is 30, so presumably it is less of an issue.
I think we should exclude people that swam at the university of texas or any other major d 1 school. They had a competitive advantage over those of us that swam mid major or small schools.
I vote that if your initials are pwb,a.r., smith's, then you shouldn't allowed to compete until at least your 80's.
I mean, if we are going to exclude people, anyone with major D1 experience out to be out as well. They certainly have advantages of the rest of us.
YES! THIS!!! ^^^
And for those of us, who have never swum competitively before starting masters just a couple of years ago, we should get our own "division" with separate TT times and records from all other masters swimmers who had any form of coaching or instruction in competitive swimming in their youth! :D
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.... are we going to then exclude retired folks who have all the time in the world to dedicate to their sport and swim, maybe training with the same ferocity and commitment as the 'elites?'
Not a good plan for retirement, way to much sleep would be required too, and the big eternal rest is already far too near at this point for all that sleeping to be worthwhile. Save some energy and enjoy retirement.
I totally get what Britt03 is saying. There is nothing wrong with a focus on setting goals and aspiring to TT times and records, and it is not hard to understand that it would be discouraging to a highly competitive swimmer when a NT member or pro swimmer enters the competition, if one's focus is on TTs and usms records. But, not letting an eligible swimmer's times count (NT or not) just doesn't seem right. In a relatively few years, as someone else indicated, age and life requirements will somewhat shuffle and equalize the field of competition.
Agreed.
This phrase really caught my attention and I think it's the crux of the problem -- the field of competition was never and will never be equalized. As some people try to craft 'exclusion' rules, to me, it seems like the effort is designed to try to accomplish this elusive goal of 'equalizing the field of competition.'
My point is that "aging" and the "passing of time" inevitably change and to some degree, equalize and remix the field without us interfering. We don't need to come up with ways to equalize it (like excluding NT members), equalization or changes to the field just happen. It's life. If you are twenty something now you may not have that perspective, but look around when you turn thirty, forty, fifty, and sixty and the field and picture you see will be different at each point in time and somewhat "equalized" (for lack of a better term). Patience and perseverance.
I'm betting there are lots of life time swimmers who did not come close to NQTs, but kept at it, and now have TT times and records as they've aged.
If we simply raise the minimum age for Masters swimming to 30, then (with rare exceptions) this problem goes away. Of course then USMS becomes less inclusive.
To be honest I don't understand such sayings. What do you think these people should do from 25 to 30? Start drinking beer before TV and goofing off?
I really liked experience in Poland - in opposite they have so called zero category for 20-25 years. The idea is to prevent youth from quitting swimming after they finish their career and to give them purpose to keep on with healthy lifestyle by giving them chance to compete in Masters starting from 20.
I don't believe that masters track and field prohibits professional athletes or national team members from setting age group records, but the minimum age to compete as a masters athlete in track is 30, so presumably it is less of an issue.
Merlene Ottey (still a Slovenian National Team member when she set her W50 records!), Linford Christie, Kim Collins, Haile Gebrselassie...
Geb's M35 Marathon WR (2:03:59) was formerly the *Open* WR - can't get more elite than that.
My favorite memory of the Atlanta nationals was standing next to Cullen Jones and Nick Brunelli while they watched sixty-five year old Rich Abrahams break 50 in the 100 FR. They were going nuts. They were saying something like "can you freaking believe that..."
I think it is great to see elite athletes perform and the more who participate in our events, the better. I think having Cullen Jones, Nick Brunelli and Mark Gangloff swim in our nationals adds to the prestige of masters swimming, even if they only entered to be able wear their rubber suits one more time. When people ask me about the competition, its nice to be able to say that there were Olympians and national team members at the meet. I think it makes the competition more relevant.
