Darian Townsend entered a masters meet in Mesa over the weekend and broke five world records in the 25-29 age group. This was Townsend's first masters meet. For those of you who are not familiar with him, Townend is a three-time Olympian and gold medalist from South Africa.
Swimswam.com posted a story about Townend's incredible meet. Here's the link: swimswam.com/.../
I found the comments quite interesting especially this one by "HMMM":
I have no problem with athletes making money off of Masters but why have a separate division called Masters if there are no rules or restrictions? None of the sponsored people you mention in their 50′s are training for Rio are they?. Most people in Masters believe they are swimming against recreational swimmers which is why there is a separate Masters division and those records are set by recreational/retired swimmers. If Phelps remains retired and wants to swim Masters, well there goes a few records in his age group but none of us in our club would have a problem with it. We discussed that very subject this morning after practice and Phelps, like Rowdy Gaines is retired and would welcome him. Many of us have swam against and met Rowdy and it is a true honor to share the pool with him in a Masters meet. But our entire team would have a huge problem if Lochte decides to swim a Masters meet while he is still fully training for the Olympics and blows all the records out of the water. If Lochte swims 12 events, he is going to walk away with 12 records. Why have a separate record book? If he can do that, you might as well just call us all USA swimmers and do away with the Masters division. There are meets where fully training pros swim and they are called Grand Prix’s, Nationals, and Worlds. Call us old fashioned, call us Masters swimmers, but we all think Masters should be separate from the training pros..
So I'm curious what the rest of you think. Should someone like Darian Townend or Ryan Lochte be allowed to swim in masters meets when they are professional swimmers who are training full-time? And maybe "allowed" is a poor choice or word. The bottom line is do you think they have any business swimming masters meets?
As someone who has had the pleasure of being soundly defeated many times by former Olympians twenty years my senior (and non-Olympians, and girls, and big fat dudes, and little kids...), I think it's a cop-out to exlude any registered swimmer from eligibility for NR/AA/top 10. If someone in your age group swims faster than you, they get the record. You want it? Train better.
There is nothing wrong with a focus on setting goals and aspiring to TT times and records, and it is not hard to understand that it would be discouraging to a highly competitive swimmer when a NT member or pro swimmer enters the competition, if one's focus is on TTs and usms records. But, not letting an eligible swimmer's times count (NT or not) just doesn't seem right.Agreed.
...equalize the field of competition.This phrase really caught my attention and I think it's the crux of the problem -- the field of competition was never and will never be equalized. As some people try to craft 'exclusion' rules, to me, it seems like the effort is designed to try to accomplish this elusive goal of 'equalizing the field of competition.'
I don't see the issue. If the swimmer is a USMS member swimming at USMS sanctioned competition, where's the problem? Who cares if they break every WR on the books? They're doing it against other Masters swimmers. Shoot, you could argue that they should be allowed to set records at USA-S meets because they at least have some competition there.
If you're so hung up on whether or not you get into a TT list in Masters swimming of all places, you need to get a life.
If you pay the dues, and you abide by membership rules, you get to compete. End of story.
equalize the field of competition.
i am ALL for this!!!
pwd, sorry buddy, you have to lose about 9 inches of height. oh, and gain about 30lbs.
and since i'm the shortest and fattest in our age group, everyone has to eat more Blue Bell ice cream than i do.....haha good luck with that!
so, instead of ages can we go by weight class or better yet height class? i vote for height class!!!
p.s.
wow just thought of this....everybody is now required to have 2 knee surgeries and 2 shoulder surgeries as well. dont worry i am willing to give tips on how to shorten the recovery to just missing 1 entire year. for each shoulder operation.
I'm betting there are lots of life time swimmers who did not come close to NQTs, but kept at it, and now have TT times and records as they've aged.
Sojerz,
Correct me if I am wrong here, but it sounds like you are saying that TT times and records are easier as you get into the older age groups. I don't think that is true. I also think if a swimmer does not have NQTs now that he or she will be able to get TT or records when they get older.
For 1971 the #1 time in the 50 - 54 age group for men in the 100 SCY was 59.60. In 2013 the #1 time was 48.04 ( the current record is 46.59). By way of comparison, the #1 time in the 25 - 29 age group for the 100 free SCY in 1971 was 49.40! This means that the 50 year old today would have beaten the pants off of the 25 year old 42 years ago.
In 1971 the #1 time in the 60 - 64 age group for men in the 100 SCY was 1:06.80. In 2013 the #1 time was 51.03 (the current record is 49.14). When you look ahead 20 years the records look easy, but in 20 yeas the records will be much better than they are now - guaranteed.
People have the impression that as they age the top times are softer. Not true.
All that said, I believe that anyone who is a member of USMS, Olympian or elite or in "full training mode" should have opportunity to set all of the records they can.
This is the best forum debate we've had since the sandbaggers and split-requesters tried to convince those of us that compete legitimately that those practices are acceptable.
My basic issue with this is that it smells like an attempt to simply grab glory for an incredibly small group of people. Also, it is not in the least in the spirit of competition if you have to narrow the field such that it only benefits one or two people. Lastly, it also strikes me as "every child gets a trophy" brand of feel good sports.
Most of the fast swimmers I know feel ripped off if their best competition isn't at a meet. I'm not sure what value there is to Masters swimming to exclude fast swimmers simply because they swim fast. And, that's exactly what this is about.
Paragraph 1: Disagree. Best was anything Aquageek/Fortress vs. Fernandez "Show Me Your Times!" I loved that guy. No, not you. Well, ok, that guy too!
Put me down in the Yes, allow "Elites" column. Whatever "elites" is, I vote yes!
Thank you.
Patrick, You must be joking about us retired folk. Sure we have the time, but the energy is a whole other matter.Don't shatter my illusions, Rich. I'm dreaming of retirement as the time I can finally devote myself to training again without this pesky thing called work getting in the way ;)
I absolutely cannot believe the swimmers' capacity for hard work, both in and out of the water. Makes me tired just watching them.Rich, I've only swum one workout with you ... and I could say the same for you. It certainly made me tired.
:applaud:
It's also arbitrary and opens up a :worms:. If we're going to exclude really fast young people just because they spend their profession is swimming, are we going to then exclude retired folks who have all the time in the world to dedicate to their sport and swim, maybe training with the same ferocity and commitment as the 'elites?'
I think we should exclude people that swam at the university of texas or any other major d 1 school. They had a competitive advantage over those of us that swam mid major or small schools.
I vote that if your initials are pwb,a.r., smith's, then you shouldn't allowed to compete until at least your 80's.
I mean, if we are going to exclude people, anyone with major D1 experience out to be out as well. They certainly have advantages of the rest of us.
I'm in the 65-69 age group. Most of the national record holders in my age group and my previous age groups all seem to be previous NCAA champions. Some of them are retired and are now certainly training full-time.
I'm glad to be able to get in the pool with these guys and give it my best shot, just like I was glad to be able to swim on college team with Olympians (I was certainly not at that level, but I swam with them every day).
We have qualifying times for Nationals and most masters swimmers that I know can't make those times, but they are still allowed to swim three events.
I'm going to try and get a big crowd to go to nationals this year. They'll swim in the early heats and then they will feel the excitement as the heats go by.
