would be interested in hearing theories on why masters national records have been broken without the fast suits but world-class swimmers have not. i always thought the fast suits helped us more than them
Both of these statements can be and, IMHO, are simultaneously true ..
Because masters records are easier to break
I can say with absolute authority that Masters records are not easy to break.
... but, I think Jeff's comment is spot on:
The reason more records weren't broken is because a lot of people automatically thought they wouldn't swim faster in 2011 without the rubber suits.
Though I haven't yet beaten my tech suit times, I had a big hang up in my mind about matching or beating my tech suit times. I swam my last event at Nationals, the 100 fly, and went in with relatively little pre-conceived notion of how fast I'd swim. I'd be training more butterfly this season and had been feeling generally good in practice on my fly sets, but I still believed that approaching or exceeding my tech suit times was going to be near impossible. Imagine my surprise when I came into the wall nearly a full second under my previous best 'jammer' time and only 0.11 off my best tech suit time.
Ande is spot on ...
It's possible for masters to swim faster in textile suits than they did in full body rubber suits.
... and I hope to prove it to myself because, if I want to break any of the tough 45-49 National records when I age up next year, I'll need to swim faster faster!
The reason more records weren't broken is because a lot of people automatically thought they wouldn't swim faster in 2011 without the rubber suits. That instantly tells your brain that you can't do it, which tells your body you can't do it. I was shocked when I swam a 55.12 at nationals, but I had prepared myself to race like I could swim that fast.
The short course yards 100 *** national record for the 35-39 age group has been on my mind since I was 30. I never thought I could swim faster than 55.26 in Masters, but I put in the work every year since I turned 35, and this year it all worked out well at Nationals, from training to taper to race prep.
Since I did not fully prepare for a short course yards race in the high-tech suit era, I don't know if I could have gone under 55 with the suit in 2009-2010, but I know I was never fully comfortable in those rubber things and it distracted me from focusing on the race.
If you look at the people who set the records at nationals (besides myself, Rowdy Gaines, Josh Davis and a couple of others), most of them were entering a new age group, and most of them swam slower than they did wearing the suits, but fast enough to break records in a new age group.
I can say with absolute authority that Masters records are not easy to break. I'm already looking ahead to the 40-44 age group and know I will have my work cut out for me.
Very well said, Jeff.
They are out there.
There are hundreds of potential masters record breakers training in masters workouts all over the world ...
I ran into this guy recently, at a little local Senior Olympics SCM meet, totally flying under the radar screen. He swam every one of the men's events, with just a couple of minutes rest between them, wearing a drag suit. During the women's events, he parked himself in the warmup lane.
His times weren't really all that close to the national records in his age group, but given that he was swimming every event, back-to-back, in a drag suit, they weren't all that far off either. A couple of his times would have been #2 or #3 in the 2010 SCM rankings. He kicked my butt in 4 of the 6 events I swam. I think he could take out a record or two under the right conditions.
They are out there.
would be interested in hearing theories on why masters national records have been broken without the fast suits but world-class swimmers have not.
Because masters records are easier to break.
Masters records would be more analogous to national age group records in USA Swimming, and I'm sure plenty of those have been broken without the suits.
The reason more records weren't broken is because a lot of people automatically thought they wouldn't swim faster in 2011 without the rubber suits. That instantly tells your brain that you can't do it, which tells your body you can't do it.
Jeff, I couldn't agree more. The attitude of the man or woman inside the suit matters more than the suit itself!
would be interested in hearing theories on why masters national records have been broken without the fast suits but world-class swimmers have not. i always thought the fast suits helped us more than them
True, records were broken in Mesa without the suits, but compare the number to 2010 nationals when masters were still allowed to wear the suits:
2010: 103 individual records, 19 relay records.
2011: 40 individual records, 10 relay records.
Rich
The reason more records weren't broken is because a lot of people automatically thought they wouldn't swim faster in 2011 without the rubber suits. That instantly tells your brain that you can't do it, which tells your body you can't do it. I was shocked when I swam a 55.12 at nationals, but I had prepared myself to race like I could swim that fast.
The short course yards 100 *** national record for the 35-39 age group has been on my mind since I was 30. I never thought I could swim faster than 55.26 in Masters, but I put in the work every year since I turned 35, and this year it all worked out well at Nationals, from training to taper to race prep.
Since I did not fully prepare for a short course yards race in the high-tech suit era, I don't know if I could have gone under 55 with the suit in 2009-2010, but I know I was never fully comfortable in those rubber things and it distracted me from focusing on the race.
If you look at the people who set the records at nationals (besides myself, Rowdy Gaines, Josh Davis and a couple of others), most of them were entering a new age group, and most of them swam slower than they did wearing the suits, but fast enough to break records in a new age group.
I can say with absolute authority that Masters records are not easy to break. I'm already looking ahead to the 40-44 age group and know I will have my work cut out for me.
There are hundreds of potential masters record breakers training in masters workouts all over the world. Olympians, National Team, and previous World Record holders.
Swim around a little bit and you'll see them.
Or ask any masters swim coach about the incredible swimmer(s) in their club who chooses not to swim in competition.
To the great pleasure of those of us who love to see records broken and beautiful fast swimming... these super fast "workout only" swimmers decide one day to enter a competition.
For any of a hundred reasons.
I hope to see many more show up in the future.
(oh and by the way, NO SUIT would get in their way)
would be interested in hearing theories on why masters national records have been broken without the fast suits but world-class swimmers have not. i always thought the fast suits helped us more than them
some national & world records HAVE been broken by elite swimmers
like Ryan Lochte's SCM 200 & 400 IMs WRs
Most WRs are very difficult to break, with the flurry of records that fell in the past few years indicate the suits helped quite a bit. I'm sure we'll see some WRs fall as the Olympics approach.
Masters WRs are way easier.
Compare masters records to times swimmers have done in similar age groups.
Sometimes there's a big gap. Shouldn't the fastest times for swimmers at certain ages be the masters records or should records only be given to those who filled out the paperwork, joined masters and filing for the record.
Some former elite swimmers could just dabble with training and easily break masters records.
Younger faster masters swimmers age up every year.
Aging up is prime time to strike at records.
Swimmers who were in college in the 1950's
didn't train as far or hard as swimmers in the 1960's and weren't as fast.
And same when you compare swimmers from the 1960's with the 1970's.
Same with the 1970's compared to the 1980's.
Most swimmers stopped swimming after their Sr years in college.
At the 1984 Olympics, Rowdy was considered OLD at 25. He thought of himself as "really old" at 29 in the 1988 trials.
In the late 80's, 90's & 00's, we started seeing more world class swimmers training at elite levels in their:
mid to late 20's, (too many to list)
early mid & late 30's, (Mark Foster, Gary Hall, Jason Lezak, fabiola molinawww.google.com/search )
even early 40's. (Dara Torres
Some of those swimmers will take up masters and smash records, just as Rowdy Gaines broke freestyle records in the 50 - 54 age group. Or Rich Abrahams has in 45 - 49, 50 - 54, 55 - 59, 60 - 64, & 65 - 69 age groups. Some of these elite swimmers are just dabbling in masters. Showing up at a few meets & swimming just a few events. Like Josh Davis who swam the 50 fly in 22.2 at the 2011 SCY nats in mesa. He's still got it! Imagine what he could do if he made it his "mission" to break as many masters records as he could?
It's possible for masters to swim faster in textile suits than they did in full body rubber suits.
I did it in the
200 IM LCM
2010 2:18.45 jammer vs 2009 2:21.24 full body rubber suit
400 IM SCY
2011 4.18.48 jammer vs 2010 4:22.70 full body B70
here's a few SFF Tips on swimming faster in textile suits:
Tip 282 Prepare for the New Suit Rules
tip 268 Swimming Faster Faster in Slower Suits
Swim Faster Faster Index
Former Member
This is not 100% true, but in general the fastest swimmers in the world at age 20 would be the fastest 50 year old swimmers in the world when the reach that age if they continued to train. And because the records are not being set by the former world record holders they are not as "fast" as they potentially could be.
Or as Kirk put it, because the records are easier to break.
