Scapular swimming

Yes, this is a VERY old thread; however, I am bringing it back to ask if anybody has every been able to locate a video of PROPER Scapular Plane Swimming technique. I had my husband shoot a video of me back in 2013; however, I'm not sure this is correct: www.youtube.com/watch The reason I am bringing it up now, is because of the problem I have with my LEFT shoulder when I swim freestyle BREATHING RIGHT. It started when I developed bursitis from a land-based repetitive stress injury last year; however, it has continued since then. When my face is in the water, my left scapula doesn't seem to move/glide smoothly when I release my hand after the pull and bring my elbow up into a high elbow recovery. It seems to get "caught" a lot of the time, and my left arm has developed this robotic-looking recovery. If you compare my right and left arms on recovery in the video below, you can see the difference. Watch the left arm, especially on the second 25 when I swim towards the camera: www.youtube.com/watch SA1B&t=0s At this point, I will sacrifice speed to swim with a technique that will keep me in the pool for the rest of my life without needing shoulder surgery. I just want to make sure I am doing it properly. I had switched away from Scapular Plane Swimming when I was constantly being told I needed to swim with a high elbow, and my technique was incorrect. I don't know how my technique would be viewed in second video (with high elbow); however, I believe it is the INCORRECT technique for the health of my shoulders. I need to change back to Scapular Plane Swimming; however, I want to do it correctly. I sent an e-mail to OrthoSportsMed Physical Therapy (Kip Dye and Milton Nelms) who developed the technique, so I hope to receive a response. In the meantime, if any of you are familiar with this technique, could post a video, or offer suggestions; I would appreciate it very much. :agree: P.S. I do McKenzie Technique PT exercises and the Thrower's Ten Exercise Program regularly, in addition to other shoulder PT exercises as part of my daily dryland program.

ElaineK - I will try to keep my reply short. Switch back to your 2013 stroke and you will save yourself a ton of discomfort. I have never used the term "scapular swimming" as it applies to stroke technique. I tell my swimmers two things: a) your elbow should never be behind your back and between your shoulder blades during the recovery (likes yours are in 2018 video) and b) your recovery should be as much in the frontal plane of your body as possible. Some people get away with it because of their specific body structure - others don't. If you are being told to do the "zipper" or "thumb drag" drill - stop doing it. Without very good coach assistance, it is one of the worst drills in the swimming books because, when the swimmer does not rotate properly, it leads to the elbow being behind your body. Even with close coach feedback, there are better drills to help with freestyle recovery. I also think the full catch-up drill is in this category as one of the worst drills out there. If I were your coach, I would suggest the following things: a) Make sure your thumb touches mid-way down your thigh an the end of each stroke. b) Make sure the recovery side hip is higher than the pulling side hip until your recovery arm is forward of your recovery shoulder c) To Do "B" correctly, you may need to let your pulling arm/hand be deeper in the water at the start of the pull. As I watch your video, your arms are entering the water outside your shoulder. This impedes rotation and puts lots of pressure on your shoulders. Hands should enter directly in front of your shoulder. I will try to get a video of some swimmers I like and post. PW

ElaineK - I will try to keep my reply short. Switch back to your 2013 stroke and you will save yourself a ton of discomfort. I have never used the term "scapular swimming" as it applies to stroke technique. I tell my swimmers two things: a) your elbow should never be behind your back and between your shoulder blades during the recovery (likes yours are in 2018 video) and b) your recovery should be as much in the frontal plane of your body as possible. Some people get away with it because of their specific body structure - others don't. If you are being told to do the "zipper" or "thumb drag" drill - stop doing it. Without very good coach assistance, it is one of the worst drills in the swimming books because, when the swimmer does not rotate properly, it leads to the elbow being behind your body. Even with close coach feedback, there are better drills to help with freestyle recovery. I also think the full catch-up drill is in this category as one of the worst drills out there. If I were your coach, I would suggest the following things: a) Make sure your thumb touches mid-way down your thigh an the end of each stroke. b) Make sure the recovery side hip is higher than the pulling side hip until your recovery arm is forward of your recovery shoulder c) To Do "B" correctly, you may need to let your pulling arm/hand be deeper in the water at the start of the pull. As I watch your video, your arms are entering the water outside your shoulder. This impedes rotation and puts lots of pressure on your shoulders. Hands should enter directly in front of your shoulder. I will try to get a video of some swimmers I like and post. PW Thank you VERY much for responding to my post. You were one of the coaches I was hoping would respond, because I have respected your advice and posts on the Forums. If I understand you correctly, you are saying I should swim with the same recovery I am using in the 2013 video; however, I need to bring my arms around more so that I enter the water with my arms in front of my shoulders-- more like where they enter in the 2018 video. Is this correct? Is there anything else wrong with my technique in that video that I should correct? I will make the switch on freestyle starting tomorrow! I already have a low arm recovery on fly and have no problems with fly, back, or ***; however, I really need to make a change with my freestyle. That last thing I want is another surgery... Thanks again, Paul!

I’m looking forward to more posts and videos on this subject too. My shoulders have been bothering me a lot lately with a high elbow recovery, not to mention doing fingertip drag drills. BTW I think your 2013 freestyle looks really nice. Thanks, arrieros! I need to make sure my arms enter in front of my shoulders, though. Windrath is right about that!

I’m looking forward to more posts and videos on this subject too. My shoulders have been bothering me a lot lately with a high elbow recovery, not to mention doing fingertip drag drills. BTW I think your 2013 freestyle looks really nice.

Paul, here's my first attempt at your suggestions. I see that I still need to go lower with the elbow. (Note: I am eliminating the push-off and streamlining, so more of my stroke shows up in the video. In addition, I do not do flip turns due to having Meniere's.) Any suggestions? I sure would appreciate it! Thanks in advance! www.youtube.com/watch EDIT: I tried to correct the year in the date of the video, but YouTube won't let me! :bitching:

Hi ElaineK - Thanks for posting a current video. Let me go into a few more aspects regarding my freestyle philosophy. Before that though. Comment #1: I read the three articles you attached to your first post. I did not find them helpful in explaining scapular swimming in layman's terms. Comment #2 (to Arrieros post): I also dislike the finger-tip drag drill because most swimmers do it without the appropriate body rotation. Comments: a) Let me be a bit more specific about hand entry. I like the hand entry to be between the head and shoulder. In fact, I like my shoulder to come very close to touching the side of my head on entry. When you try this, have someone give you feedback to make sure you are not crossing over past your head. b) I do NOT coach laying your hand /arm on the surface of the water. This leads, more often than not, to a dropped elbow pulling pattern. I like the concept of stabbing into the water, so your hand is lower than your elbow which is lower than your shoulder. I do NOT like a high elbow pull with the elbow being close to the surface - not many people can do this well and those who do usually have monster kicks or shoulders that are very "forgiving". My definition of high elbow catch is the elbow being higher than the hand which, in my mind, is anywhere from 9 - 24" below the surface of the water. Yes, this is divergent from accepted philosophy. :) c) This next aspect is huge and the sequence is critical. I believe that after touching your thumb to your thigh, you rotate your "recovery" hip towards the ceiling (20-30 degrees) and keep it there for much of the recovery. Next, the arm recovery should be initiated by lifting your hand out of the water instead of starting the recovery with lifting your elbow out of the water. Yes, I like a straighter arm recovery. To do this well, your palm should be facing the bottom at the end of the stroke (very important) and finger tips pointed towards your feet. The recovery action should feel like someone pinching the skin on the back of your hand and lifting your hand out of the water. The key to this recovery is that your body is rotated so your recovery hip is higher than your pulling side hip. Your entire recovery arm should be on the front side of your body. And, your entire arm, throughout the recovery, should be on the front side of body. I cannot emphasize enough that this last point is huge. d) Does your arm have to be straight during the entire recovery? In my opinion, NO. Only during the initial 25-30%. After that, do what feels comfortable. What is important is that your enter arm stays on the front side of your body. ElaineK, when I watch your video, it appears to me that you initiate the recovery by lifting your elbow and your recovery side starts rotating towards "flat" at the same time. Try the sequence above. If it is too confusing, simply try doing a straight arm recovery (not a straight arm pull). Of course, it is going to feel awkward and different. I looked for alot of video and find this matches my philosophy the best: www.youtube.com/watch. Let me know what your questions are. :) PW

Paul, I checked out that video, and it actually seems to be in contrast to what Kip Dye is advocating in Scapular Plane Swimming. The rule of thumb is to always keep your elbow in your peripheral vision when you breathe (as opposed to having your elbow high and out of vision on recovery.) In the video you posted, the elbow is straight up and would seem to torque the shoulder even more. I would think this style of freestyle would be best for the Janet Evan types with very loose fascia and forgiving joints. What do you think of my 2013 style of Scapular Plane Swimming style if I were to get my arms to enter properly in front of my shoulder? I worked on it today, keeping in mind following through on the pull and keeping my recovery hip high until my arm was in front of my shoulder. It felt pretty good. I agree with you completely on the high elbow pull. It stresses my shoulders! I use a deeper pull on every stroke for that reason. Thanks for your time and help; I appreciate it!

ElaineK - Ah - the subtlety of our sport is what makes it interesting. Admittedly, the swimmer in the video is younger and still has some range of motion that we lose as we get older. We also have to acknowledge that the elite athlete has physical assets that slower swimmers do not. Having said that, look more closely at the body position while the arm comes over the top. The arm is, for the most part, on the frontal plane of the body. His body stays rotated until his arm has passed forward of the shoulder and then he rotates onto his stomach and to the other side. This is the relationship that most coaches and swimmers miss. For alot of reasons, most swimmers do not stay on their "pulling side" long enough which makes this kind of recovery possible. Two of the reasons are: their head is too high and/or they are trying to pull to the outside to get a "high elbow" catch. The latter reason results in early rotation onto the stomach which messes a good recovery. Full disclosure - I believe in keeping the pull side of your body lower than the recovery side until your hand passes your hip. Some people might call it late breathing. I just think it brings hip rotational power into play and connects the legs to the arms through the hips. This part is so hard - coaching through the internet. As I watch your 3-23-19 video, it is my opinion that you are rotating back towards your stomach too early in the pull. I would try to pull deeper (think about reaching to the bottom) and "stay" on your pulling side longer (until your pulling hand is past your hip). Try to imagine swimming from side-to-side and avoiding time on your stomach. If what you did today felt better, that is a good thing. As I get older, I think more about what feels good instead of what goes fast. Afterall, swimming every day means it has to be enjoyable and rewarding. Anything that gets in the way of those two things is counter-productive no matter how technically correct it might be. :) As hard as it is to coach on the internet, it is equally hard to interpret internet coaching and trying to simulate it in the pool. Good Luck and let me know how it goes. Paul

Hi Elaine, So sorry to hear about your shoulder! I took a look at both the 2013 video and the most recent clip you posted and although its difficult to ascertain exactly why your shoulder may be causing you pain, I can definitely see some issues that could lead to this. While in many cases, the arm recovery could be pinpointed as a source of shoulder pain, I believe that in your case the issue is mainly with the left arm pull and finish. I've included some screenshots below from the March 2018 video. First, you can see that you cross over during the hand and arm entry. After that, your outsweep extends outside of the plane of your body and the rest of the pull happens outside of your body instead of pulling more towards the center of the body. You can see this in the first two screenshots. Additionally, you can see in the video, (you can see it better on the 2013 video but also I can see it on the most recent video) that your kick tends to "freeze" while you are pulling with the left arm. Without the kick to support you, you're relying mainly on your arm to pull you through the water. Coupled with the way you are pulling, this puts additional pressure on the shoulder. Finally, as you can see in both the 2013 and present video, you tend to have an exaggerated finish - finishing past your hips and flicking the left arm out of the water, almost across your back, rather than finishing just at the hips. This can also put pressure on the shoulder. What I would recommend is to really work on deconstructing your stroke and rebuilding it - building up both sides of the body, building balance and core strength and in the meantime, protect your left arm while it is hurting. Work on single arm right arm, work on kicking/ rotation and make sure that you are not aggravating that shoulder anymore. Good luck and hope your shoulder improves quickly! 11503 11504 11505