We have been talking about the effectiveness of race pace vs as far as possible per workout,or at least short rest workouts so I thought"Why not a poll?"Note for this poll check all that apply.
Former Member
So much of how we train is based on superstition rather than solid research, it seems ...
Anyone who has been swimming for a while, and who does more than mindlessly execute the coach's workouts, probably is their own research lab.
In my case, periodization works not because I need to have a long taper from the mega-yardage workouts that I do, but because I tend to make large drops when I rest (my tempo improves, my body position is different, etc) and I do not get sufficient rest from just a few days of less yardage and no weights.
Different people will respond differently to the same training regimens. You've simply got to find what works for you.
As a young 'un I needed a 4-6 week taper - but this was coming down from mega-yardage. Now, with less time and interest in lots of yardage, and less need for lots of rest and recovery, my tapers are much shorter.
But every season I still go through a cycle of 6-8+ weeks of mainly aerobic and technique work, with heavy lifting (aka getting back into decent shape); followed by 4-6 weeks of mainly LT and anaerobic work (and some speed work) with moderate lifting (aka getting used to suffering); followed by mainly sprint and anaerobic work with little or no lifting.
It is not unusual for an early season 100y or 100m race to be 5 seconds slower than my "big meet" time.
Maybe this is why I can't swim a 200...
I was wondering the other day if there was any merit to pure LSD practices in swimming at all. (In terms of performance enhancement, not waistline diminishment.)
Active recovery. Working on technique. Aerobic conditioning.
And of course Chaos is right that race-pace for a distance swimmer is a different thing than for a sprinter/mid-D type of person. (Whenever a coach tells me to "descend to race pace," my smart-alec alter ego always wants to ask, "which race? The mile? The 10K?")
One thing I don't like about the poll is that "distance" and "race-pace" training are presented as if they are exclusive of one another.
"As far as possible" workouts can have value, just don't do them every darn time. I think the key is to mix it up: don't do everything at one (moderate) pace and HR/intensity level. Red-in-the-face race pace sets clearly have their place, but if that's all you did you would not be successful. Same thing for any other type of workout. Your focus (eg sprint, mid-D, distance) will dictate the proper mix of workouts.
Long Slow Distance ... I've come to believe it's the true evilstroke when it comes to trying to swim faster.
i think it has lots of value but, i'm not talking about the "conversational breaststroke"
what may be "slow" for a sprinter might very well be race pace for a marathon.
also, anyone looking to make stroke modifications has to put in the time and repetition.
temperature conditioning can only be achieved through increased exposure.
and finally and most obvious........ aerobic capacity
just to name a few benefits
In fact, I was starting to think about putting the hammer down for the last few hours, I felt so strong.
See, this statement is where you lost Fort. :)
See, this statement is where you lost Fort. :)
No kidding. :afraid::bolt:
I get the active recovery and technique work, Chris. But I do this within my regular sprinticus workouts. I will cop to doing a recovery workout every once in awhile as well. As Jazz has pointed out, though, you do get aerobic work in the course of doing anaerobic work.
LBJ, I don't find myself periodizing much as a master. And I'm not sure it holds tremendous validity for sprinters. So much of how we train is based on superstition rather than solid research, it seems ...
I was wondering the other day if there was any merit to pure LSD practices in swimming at all. (In terms of performance enhancement, not waistline diminishment.)
If you periodize your training, the rule of thumb is that you move from the most general to most race-specific training as your training program progresses. (This is also true in Lydiard-type training.) So there is value per Chris' reasons in some LSD work for anyone.
In general, the focus of the type and intensity of training is related to the race (a.k.a. the principle of training specificity), so if you are a sprinter, you won't do too much of this as compared to a distance swimmer.
When I was training for MIMS, I did lots of longer LSD swims since the ability to go for a long time at a lower intensity was specific to the race. (I was just trying to finish; not win anything.) For example, 12,000+ yards in a straight 3 hour swim (with a quick drink every 30 minutes) focusing on my technique and relaxing. That's 45 secs/50yards average - not exactly blazing - but very close to the effort that I felt I wanted to sustain. It worked like a charm - I got buried in the first part of the race, started hauling people back at the whirlpool (2-ish hours in), and was just about to move into the top 10 at the GW bridge (5+ hours in) when I had to DNF due to (non-swimming) health issues. I was totally relaxed and felt like I could swim forever. In fact, I was starting to think about putting the hammer down for the last few hours, I felt so strong.
If you do it right there is no such thing as "junk yardage" in swimming, regardless of the pace.
-LBJ
The numbers aren't big enough to be meaningful yet,but I find it interesting that while the numbers on TT were about the same,the race pace has twice as many AAs.Also,to the 4 who find they are faster doing mostly distance,I'd like to know more about your experience.
sometimes it is nice to get in some aerobic training without getting your LT too high or stressing your fast-twitch fibers too much. That's an interesting comment.
If I may, I would add that since swimming is a activity where we glide, even at aerobic pace it is possible to apply **huge levels** of torque/power (euh well, could be anywhere between smooth and huge) on each stroke. Of course we then reach outstanding distance per stroke (this is where the glide part comes in handy). That combined with a focus on staying streamline during the process can make mostly aerobic longish distances still relevant to race pace. All that at relatively low metabolic cost and at relatively low blood lactate level.
Add to it a soft but consistent 6 beat and you're even more specific to shorter event race pace. This sort of training even for a sprinter is very relevant.
It may be how the few having answered that they improve pure speed by performing endurance sets approach the stroke - technique wise I mean.
Search under "sport training intensity polarization" or the like and several studies pop upthat assert that 75% - 8% - 17% training distribution in zones 1,2 and 3 (slow, lactate threshold, and wide open) are common.
www.uem.es/.../La importancia de entrenar fuerte-suave.pdf
Fascinating article(that I admit I didn't read all of).I'm not sure how applicable it is to shorter more intense races,but it may be agreeing with Rich Abraham"s idea that when you go fast you should go fast and when you go slow you should go slow.)(I believe his quote was something like"the problem with most masters swimmers is that when they go fast they go too slow and when they go slow they go too fast".)
