Reducing stroke per length in backstroke

A strong rotation allows one to pull deeper and engage bigger muscles, which increases DPS. I think that is what the OP is looking for, so I think those who have been pointing to drills to increase rotation are giving good advice. My favorite backstroke drill along these lines is what one of my former coaches called the "shotgun" or "rifle" drill. As you swim backstroke, you pause the arm when it is pointing almost straight up, perpendicular to the water surface. Your shoulder should be out of the water and you should be able to "sight" down your straight arm like a rifle barrel. Watching the video Paul posted, you can easily imagine Irie doing this as he is swimming. Keeping in mind that speed is a function of DPS and stroke rate...the main disadvantage to a strong rotation is usually a slower turnover. I notice that when I sprint backstroke I tend to sacrifice rotation for hand-speed (though I still rotate a lot compared to many) and I am not as clean in my hand entry. I do the same in freestyle too. . There is a very nice set of photos of Chris Stevenson doing backstroke in the May-June Swimmer mag, including shots of rotation, depth of pull, and aiming down the "rifle barrel" arm. Very nice! :)

...When swimming backstroke my pull seems to be very wide and I sometimes touch people in the adjacent lane. Just curious if this happens to people with good backstrokes. I think it is just the nature of the beast... and inevitable, regardless of your skill level. :blush: I remember seeing cracks on this forum about the backstrokers and breaststrokers scratching and kicking everyone who goes by. That's about all you can do with it. (Laugh it off.) Quicksilver's excellent doodles show pretty well why this is unavoidable. U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Reducing stroke per length in backstroke Technically I think I qualify as having a "good backstroke" (I'm just not real fast). I come in contact (the fateful "scratch") with folks, especially on the other side of the lane line, fairly frequently. Not much you can do about it if you keep good form, 'cause you just don't know they are there. I can still see the dirty looks. I've made plenty of apologies. Fortunately I still have the ability to choose when I swim most of the time, and can get in at off-peak times. But there are always some times when it is busy. I amazed at how often there can be one person in every lane and the next one to get in chooses my lane... even though everyone but me is doing just front crawl... they obviously miss this, and don't know till it is too late that "wide" strokes (fly, back, ***). Yeah, I like the IM. ;) I can still see the looks of terror, the whites of their eyes, as they come up for air in breaststroke and see me coming at them fly. :afraid: They pause, which then throws off my timing and makes me miss even more strokes... oh well. :dunno:

Grow longer arms, it's hard to say without watching you swim backstroke, The key areas to focus on are: 1) push off, streamline, & SDK push off harder, streamline skinny, & SDK further 2) head & body position, high head & low hips increase a person's drag & stroke count shoot for the opposite 3) pull, concentrate on catching more water when pulling, to increase DPS, do strong pulls & slower recovery, the real goal is to take fewer strokes at race pace. 4) kick strong steady, & fast work on faster flutter & bk kicking, plus using it when you swim 5) body shape & proportions over weight swimmers have more drag to overcome strong skinny swimmers slice through the water better 6) swim suit the kind of suit you wear influences on your DPS tech suits increase slipperyness, float and compress all which increase DPS Do 25's, counting your strokes pick different focus items, see if you can lower your count, also do fast timed 25's & count your strokes get someone to video you swimming backstroke from different angles from the: side, head on swimming towards & away, & if possible, underwater what matters most is, what you're doing underwater when you're swimming backstroke. I find it much harder to reduce the stroke per length in backstroke than in free. In free, you can glide a long distance in each stroke, but not so in backstroke. What should I work on, the pull, or the kick, or the coordination of the hand and leg? Appreciate any comments.

I have a poor backstroke and one of the things I wonder about is the effectiveness of my pull. When swimming backstroke my pull seems to be very wide and I sometimes touch people in the adjacent lane. Just curious if this happens to people with good backstrokes.

No. Watch some video of great backstrokers. You will see in the underwater shots how the forearm and upper arm are at about 90 degrees through the middle range of the pull. But their two arms are nearly in opposition to one another, with one entering the water just about as the other is leaving it. This is how it's done. When I was coaching my daughter's team, I sketched some basic illustrations of stroke mechanics. One of our 12 year old girls got 1st place at JO's this year. This might help... forums.usms.org/attachment.php

Jeff Rouse has a very wide pull. It's very common to pull wide as opposed to freestyle where your pull is under your torso. YouTube - Go Swim Backstroke with Jeff Rouse

Thank you all so much. Will go get Swimmer magazine to see the photos of Chris. quicksilver, you are a great artist as well, the picture is very helpful! One curiosity: what's the advantage of keeping the elbow locked in recovery? (It does look nice)

Thank you all so much. Will go get Swimmer magazine to see the photos of Chris. quicksilver, you are a great artist as well, the picture is very helpful! One curiosity: what's the advantage of keeping the elbow locked in recovery? (It does look nice) Thank you. I'm an architect, so the doodling comes very naturally. It was a helpful way to convey a few key points to our kids. To answer your question...too many of our age groupers were bending their arms as they recovered. They should be straight as possible for 2 reasons. 1.) To ensure the cleanest possible entry 2.) To ensure the longest possible reach for when the hand enters You do not want the arm bent in any way as it slices into the water. It should come down like an oar, ready to dig in, and start sculling. On that note...It's best to let the arm drop down a few inches, and lean into the stroke (ride the rails) before pulling back. A slightly deeper pull is important to grab onto still water. This may help too...www.svl.ch/backstroke.html

Ok - I have been waiting for any of my brethern breaststrokers to make the comment but since they haven't The best way to reduce the strokes per length in backstroke is to avoid swimming it as much as possible. :D:D

Fantastic discussion. One that I really need to follow. When I was at my best form back in 1982 I actually had a fairly decent backstroke. 59:30 for the hundred meters, which was not too shabby for the times. No Olympic berth, but I could smile about it, at least that day. Now, over 25 years later I find that my backstroke is really my weak sister stroke. Maybe this is because it was my best stroke and now it has fallen into sub-par mediocrity like the rest of my swimming. On the other hand, I have come to the conclusion that my complete loss of skill in backstroke has everything to do with my lack of kick. Put a pull-buoy and paddles on me and I can still rip-off a backstroke set I can smile about (though my shoulders will curse me for days after). Add my legs into the fray and I might as well just tie a lead weight to my feet. Strokes per 25 meters free pulling: 11 to 12. swimming 14 to 15 Strokes per 25 meters back pulling: 13 or so. swimming 18 or so, and half as fast. The turns? doing it pull it's 1.5 strokes from the flags to the turn. Swimming its sometimes 4 strokes to the turn, with absolutely no inertia to carry me through the turn. I think kicking is an important element for increasing your distance per stroke. Hey, here is a question (occured to me today while doing underwater kick off the wall): How many swimmers think that nose plugs are a good idea? It seems to me, especially doing backstroke, that a set of nose plugs might just improve the streamline off the wall by decreasing the amount of air wasted coming off the wall. Maybe I am weak, but I have to blow air as I come off the wall to stop water from flooding up my nose (hence making my eyes go wonky with pain:drown:). I find that lack of air is the major reason I have to come up (that and complete lack of movement since my pathetic kick is pushing me nowhere)