Reducing stroke per length in backstroke

Chris, have you ever done that drill with a pull buoy and a band around your feet? Alsdo, would you say that the "flattening" out of your stroke at incresing speeds would be about the same as freestyle? I'm not an accomplished backstroker, i think I entered it for fun years ago but have nly toyed with it since..but i do see a lot of similarities with freestyle? I have not, and it has been a long time since I've worn a band and/or pull buoy in backstroke b/c I worry about shoulder stress. Although I wouldn't say the legs cause or initiate rotation, I think the kick does help stabilize & control it. I suspect I would have problems with over-rotation if I couldn't kick. For me personally, I don't flatten out in backstroke as much as in freestyle (keeping in mind that I don't sprint freestyle very much). Maybe others do, I am not sure...it would be hard, I would think, b/c you just don't have as good an angle -- as much leverage for the pull -- on your back as you do on your front. I do think underwater video is important to dissect the pull/roll of the great backstrokers. I've seen some that looked reasonably flat on top of the water, but when you look underwater the pull is surprisingly deep and the rotation greater than expected. Irie is unusual in how far his shoulders appear to come out of the water (compare him to the others in his heat). Most of that is real but part of it is, I think, that he just doesn't splash very much.

a deep catch in backstroke is no longer regarded as "the way"...a shallow catch is in vogue...a la piersol. also the stroke has flattened out. so, the best are currently swimming backstroke with less emphasis on rotation I received an email presentation from russell mark the technical guy at usa swimming detailing this information.

The most obvious responses are to: increase your SDK off each wall to the maximum limit allowed maintain a rapid (6 beat and up) kick once you breakout increase the effectiveness of your catch and pull. Use good body positioning, do not dropping the elbow during the upper half of the pull, and finish the push at the end of each stroke. "Gliding" may reduce the number of pulls, but it does nothing for your propulsion and speed. The idea is not just fewer strokes, it is fewer, more efficient and powerful strokes.

Just in any stroke lots lots of drills that put intense focuse on catch, DPS & glide. In reality you should be taking pretty close to the same number of stokes in back as you do in free (if you do the same SDK). Glenn has some outstanding drills you might want to check out: www.goswim.tv/.../go-swim-freestyle-backstroke-drills.html

Paul - Thanks for the link... I'm always looking for different ways to get kids to drill.

Try to roll more the the stroke side & hold a glide to improve the distance per stroke.

I'm not going to pretend to know a lot about backstroke. I haven't spent much time with it. So, I'm not disagreeing with anyone about what is the "best" way to do it. I'll just provide some food for thought. Some of the technique that has been passed on to me regarding backstroke is as follows: 1. A deep catch is both inefficient and weak in comparison to a shallow early catch or anchor position. 2. A quick snappy rotation or flatter stroke allows for greater stroke rate. Stroke rate is very important in backstroke. 3. The amount of rotation is dictated by the catch. If the goal is a quick anchor position, then only a that amount of rotation is necessary. Again, I'm not saying I believe this to be gospel. Instead, I think it is much like freestyle where it is very individual. Some swimmers work well with an open, windmill recovery. Others do better with a high elbow freestyle. So, whatever works for you. But with all the contradictory opinion on technique, I think it has become incorrect to attempt to apply blanket principles. You've got to experiment and find out what is fastest for the individual.

Thanks for the comments. The problem with fast kick is, if I kick more, my stroke count will go up. I use 6-beat kicks and anything more than that would mess up the rhythm. I would really like to increase the distance per stroke, for the sake of saving energy. increase the effectiveness of your catch and pull. Use good body positioning, do not dropping the elbow during the upper half of the pull, and finish the push at the end of each stroke. I'll work on that. Thanks. Thanks for the link, Paul.

Chris, have you ever done that drill with a pull buoy and a band around your feet? Paul - I am not a proponent of the buoy. Buoys create artificial lift which displaces body alignment, putting unusual pressures on the stroke. I prefer to train the individual to use their core to keep the hips higher and their rotation in order. Bands I'm more indifferent about, provided they are loose, not tight.

...Although I wouldn't say the legs cause or initiate rotation, I think the kick does help stabilize & control it.... I do think underwater video is important to dissect the pull/roll of the great backstrokers.... I agree... I find my kick is indispensable in stabilizing and controlling my backstroke. My flutter kick (both back and front) has been lame for a long time, but I've been working some kick drills in (finally), and I can tell the difference. It really feels good to have a strong(er) kick! I've always been in awe of folks doing just kick practice who seem to be flying along. I'll never forget one meet, standing poolside with a teammate, watching another in a 200 (free), who was pretty much kicking all-out through the whole race. "Look at Joe", he said, "If you want to do good in the 200 you have to be able to kick." I took from this that a big kick in a 200 was something "new school" (I don't really know any "school", so I'm a bit of a blank slate in that regard.) And as the quest for new records continues, the "schools of thought" change. Personally I think it is pretty simple... you just have to find your own stroke. There are some Universal Truths... but after that you just need to play around with different ideas (and this is a great forum for ideas). Finding videos that you can run through a viewer like QuickTime, where you can pause and step it frame-by-frame, are a fantastic educational tool. Getting vids of yourself and comparing them to the experts is very educational too. Above surface shots are easy (use a tripod!) Underwater cameras are more common now too. There have been several threads here on the subject: Digital Video Camera for Filming Swimming Underwater Camera? Underwater Video Camera? Swim video tools :) I've seen underwater vids from one of the Olympus compact digital cams (a Stylus 720SW maybe?)... amazing quality for the price. (About a year ago I believe these cashed in around $300+) Olympus currently has a STYLUS-550WP, estimated retail about $180, up to 10MP stills, with a vid rate (AVI, w/sound) of 640x480 (30/15fps).... It accepts a micro SD card (with an adapter, XD is the default)... and it is "Waterproof" to 10ft (3m).... This is a lot of tech for the price! 640x480 is the (old) VGA standard (remember the first IBM PC you laid eyes on back int he early 80's?)... and is substantially larger than most web vids you see posted (like at YouTube). Just so you'll know what 640x480 (VGA resolution) looks like on your current monitor configuration, the attached image here is just that size. Have Fun!