Do we have it (training) all wrong?

Of course. I'm thinking about the 200/500 combo at SCY nats next year. I've always kind liked those distances, and they suit me in one way because I'm not a terribly strong kicker. Believe it or not, I went a lifetime best in the 500 (5:11) a couple years ago on less than 10,000 yards a week. Fair enough and your youth serves you well!!

Paul brings up an interesting point here. Are we all in agreement that it's a safe practice physiologically to shoot for as little yardage at the highest intensity possible? Or is it more prudent to build up an aerobic base first and then do some speed work - an everything in moderation so to speak. Both? Periodization maybe?

Others have gone down this road - consider the tale of Dr. George Schmidt, an optometric physician practicing in Palm Beach Gardens, Florida: www.usms.org/.../index.php His training regimen consists of 3-4 days per week, approximately 1100-1300 yards/meters per 30-40 minute session, and usually includes 400-500 yards of descending 100's as the main set. He finds if he trains harder than that, his shoulder flares up and he has to back off for a week or two for healing. "I believe that it's very important to swim your fastest when you're the most tired, focusing on maintaining an efficient stroke," says Schmidt. "Too many swimmers train themselves to swim slowly and inefficiently, which may be great for cardiovascular training, but it's not certainly not helpful for swimming fast. Focusing on stroke and control is the key." I also firmly believe most masters swimmers probably train too frequently, not allowing their body to recover fully before the next workout. Schmidt's training regimen appears to work, as he has earned a total of six All-America finishes in 2000 and 2001, in the 50/100 freestyles, 100 IM's and 50 breaststroke. ("I'm finally the sprinter I always wanted to be!" says Schmidt.) In 2001 he finished in the Top 10 in the 50-54 age group in 22 events, including all four strokes and individual medley (including the 400 SCM IM, just to prove to his detractors who think he's just a pretty sprinter!). He also was ranked number one in the FINA World Rankings in three individual and six relays that year. His favorite race is the 100 IM. "I love the 100 SCM IM, because the #1 world ranked swimmer in that event can claim to be "The Fastest All-Around Swimmer in the World" in their age group. His time in 2001 was faster than anyone else over the age of 50, so he earned bragging rights that year. His views on diet supplements also are interesting ...

First of all, let me say I am a distance runner - just getting into swimming now. This was the workout schedule for JW posted: M= 200's: 8 x 200's two minutes followed by 40 yd sprints w/20 seconds rest T= 350m: 2 x 350's followed by 1 x 300, one minute rest then a 100m to simulate the end of the race W= 450m: 2 x 450's each under 1:00 with 9 minutes rest between each Th= 90m: Recovery day each run in an "X" pattern F= 100m: last run of the week is multiple 100m sprints Keep in mind that according to his coach, this is his mid-season training. He is going to have to balance his training with his races. This is probably some of the least amount of work he does during all of his training. Also, the 400 requires some level of aerobic conditioning. I am pretty sure that he is running some kind of warmup and cooldown, whether it is a quartermile or a mile plus. His coach says that 20 min workouts are the most he does, except for the fall season - which I would guess is sort of his "base" season, where the workouts are somewhat longer and slower. keep in mind - above is speculation Now, I have a question: Do swimmers generally have "base" phases? Distance runners (at least thouse following the of Lydiard) usually categorize their training into something along the lines of base phase (where they run more mileage to build aerobic capacity and good economy), then get into a "season" mode where they slightly lower the mileage and do shorter and faster workouts and start mixing in races, and before the goal race one cuts the mileage more and does "sharpening" workouts that are meant to fine-tune you.

So much of what swimmers do is just superstition. Yes, we must train twice a day for several hours! www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/.../2020277 I'll offer some of the workouts I've done this summer in the style Paul is talking about. 8x25 free with fins @ 1:00 48 strokes free from a dive with board shorts (open water) 3x25 fly with fins @ 3:00 Are there some additional examples of swimmers who do well with this kind of training? Jazz, thanks for letting us know you did the 500. Out in :54 and back in 1:05+? FYI...I had some swimmers from Sun Devil stay after workout the other day to do some bungee work...all were mainly 50-200 folks and I thought we might have a heart attack they were so 'blown up". Paul brings up an interesting point here. Are we all in agreement that it's a safe practice physiologically to shoot for as little yardage at the highest intensity possible? Or is it more prudent to build up an aerobic base first and then do some speed work - an everything in moderation so to speak. I ask b/c I'm sometimes next to masters swimmers whose breathing sounds very irregular if not totally abnormal (and not in a good way) after they give 100% in speed sets. I worry about them. Unfortunately, I cannot say that I've never witnessed a heart attack occur after a masters practice.

I'm sure several out there won't like this, but I'll post anyway. Some of us swim for reasons other than to get faster. Reasons could be the aerobic benefit, fitness benefits, or a variety of similar reasons. For me personally, while it would be fantastic to get fast and break records, I've long since come down to reality and adjusted my swimming to what works best for me. I will tolerate 1 short sprint day a week, as long as I'm swimming 5x a week. Otherwise, if I do it, I'll be kicking and screaming along the way. I just don't get the benefit from doing 5 x 100 @ 6:00 (fast sprints) that I would doing 10 x 200 @ 3:00 (in my workout mode). This past week, I only swam 3x due to some biz travel, and 2 of those were sprints, again due to swimming with different teams. When my home team coach on Friday said the set (a short sprint), I felt like I had wasted my time to show up for workout. On my team, those who do meets are in the minority, and the coach adjusts the workouts accordingly. In our case, we have other partitions of the pool (across a bulkhead) that we could use if we just want to do something on our own, and I've done that a few times. Sometimes I just feel like cruising through some 500s or other long sets on my own. I just don't see the reason to get up at 5 AM, drive 20 min, get in the water, if I'm going to burn just a few hundred calories. I can stay at home and run from here and burn ~1000 calories in less time (and I've started doing that some days instead of swimming). When I did compete in meets, and did more of the shorter sprint stuff, I wasn't nearly as healthy as I am now. I was 30-40 pounds heavier, had high blood pressure, got sick 2-3 times a year (to the point of having to see a doctor), and all kinds of stress issues. To me concentrating on fast times doesn't seem to equate to being healthy, unless I'm missing something. But this is MASTERS swimming, so to each his own.

I just don't get the benefit from doing 5 x 100 @ 6:00 (fast sprints) that I would doing 10 x 200 @ 3:00 (in my workout mode). Aneareobic training stimulates the production of natural HGH in your body. It slows muscle loss.....some perceive this as a good thing. Also This is quite the interesting post. I like the thought of doing a workout similar to world class track and field sprinters. Unfortunately, doing a workout like that is not realistic in the swimming world for a few reasons. First, aerobic work has huge health benefits and should be done by everyone. Second and more pertinent to this discussion, sprinters in swimming are not exclusively fast twitchers. The velocity of movement for swimmers is lower than for sprint runners. Sprinters in track and field move their legs so fast that slow twitch fibers can't make a contribution. There is no reason to put an emphasis on aerobic work. In swimming, the velocity of movement with the arms is much slower. The lats are by their very nature slow twitch fibers. Aerobic work needs to be done and contributes to each event, even 50’s and 100’s. I can remember the fastest sprinters in my section when swimming high school were also the best 500 swimmers. Heck, the section record holder in the 500 averaged each 100 faster than many could sprint a single 100. The only event this guy could not win was the 50. He was beat out by a pure sprinter, who spent much less time getting in yards. So for swimming, if you want to put in minimal yardage, you could be a great 50 swimmer, maybe an ok 100 swimmer, and mediocre at everything else. Or you can train huge amounts of yardage and be pretty damn good at every event, even the 50. You may not win the 50, but you can come pretty close. A few thoughts: Probably in HS the best swimmers were the best at all distances because they were the best athletes. As they develop they will probably need to choose focus events and not be first in everything. I agree there is a huge areobic component to 1 minutes efforts like the 100. Phelps breaths every stroke in the 100 right from the blocks. The recovery of 50m swimmers is increadibly ballistic. You almost can't even see it and watch C. Jones 6 beat kick. It's a blurr. There is fast twitch in swimming. You are right that distance swimmers can swim a fast 50, but will not win. A good miler like Alan Webb is also fast and has 10.8 speed in the 100.....but of course will never win. I think there is a place for 4 all out 100's as a complete workout. These types of sets stimulate and develop the CNS which will promote reqruitment of more muscle tissue as it is developed.

I think your post is mostly incorrect. A 50 yd race is about 25 secs long. Based on sources of energy - this race is completed using energy exclusively from stored glycogen. Aerobic training probably contributes near zero to the 50. The 500 swimmers you mention were probably very good at the 50 relative to their peers because their peers weren't very good. These 500 swimmers were probably very fine swimmers they weren't REALLY that good in the 50. They had great stroke mechanics becuase they swam A LOT. Many high school sprinters are powerful and lightly trained. Lots of mediocre high school boys can swim a 23-24 sec 50 because they are strong and explosive. Hofffam - Your opinion reeks of middle-distance/distance swimming snobbery. A high school boy is not mediocre if he swims a 23 or 24 in 50 free, especially considering that it may be his first year swimming and he may participate in other sports. Also, there are boys that are primarily 500 swimmers that do a high 21 or low 22 in 50 free. A 21 for a 15 year old is not mediocre. Also, there are boys that are pure sprinters that do a 21 in 50 free that will beat the 500 guy that does a high 21 or low 22. The 500 guy is still good in a 50. Also, according to Dan Benardot in his book, Nutrition for Serious Athletes, in a swim lasting 25 seconds, up to 20% of the energy source is aerobic. Good luck convincing a swim coach that aerobic training for a guy specializing in a 50 has no value whatsoever.

Also, according to Dan Benardot in his book, Nutrition for Serious Athletes, in a swim lasting 25 seconds, up to 20% of the energy source is aerobic. Good luck convincing a swim coach that aerobic training for a guy specializing in a 50 has no value whatsoever. Who says that swimming fast doesn't provide some aerobic benefits? And using the above source, that leaves approximately 80% of the energy being generated anaerobically. So that does beg the question, why so much aerobic training for sprinters? Yes, maybe some aerobic work needs to be done but predominantly aerobic? Doesn't make sense to me.

Who says that swimming fast doesn't provide some aerobic benefits? And using the above source, that leaves approximately 80% of the energy being generated anaerobically. So that does beg the question, why so much aerobic training for sprinters? Yes, maybe some aerobic work needs to be done but predominantly aerobic? Doesn't make sense to me. I do agree with you that training should not be primarily aerobic insofar as sprinters are concerned. Speed should be the primary focus for all distances, but I'm not ready to throw out the long, slow swims yet. I am convinced that they are of value, even to the sprinter. Also, I am a bit concerned that doing too much speed at our age can end up working against us. Seems like there should be a middle ground- days devoted to race pace efforts, days of easy recovery swimming, and days of hard efforts not quite up to race pace. There are at least two ways to break a swimmer down - lots of yardage OR lots of intense efforts. There needs to be a balance - not just speed to build aerobic conditioning and not just lots of yardage to build aerobic conditioning.