Much has been discussed on this topic but i wanted to revisit it after watching the track & field championships and remembering debates about how much pool training time swimmers put in relative to a runner competing in the equivalent event (a 400m runner to 100m swimmer).
What got my attention on this again was a recent article in Men's Fitness about Jeremy Wariner, specifically his training week during mid-season:
M= 200's: 8 x 200's two minutes followed by 40 yd sprints w/20 seconds rest
T= 350m: 2 x 350's followed by 1 x 300, one minute rest then a 100m to simulate the end of the race
W= 450m: 2 x 450's each under 1:00 with 9 minutes rest between each
Th= 90m: Recovery day each run in an "X" pattern
F= 100m: last run of the week is multiple 100m sprints
That's an insanely lower amount of training time than even i put in....Ande & Jazz come to mind.
More of this in an excellent article:
"Elite coaching special - Clyde Hart coach to Michael Johnson and Jeremy Wariner"
Here's are a couple of excerpt:
Clyde believes the principles of training are the same for many events: "I trained Michael Johnson like I trained a four minute miler. A four minute miler was doing a lot of the same things Michael Johnson was - a lot of the same things in training but more of them.
"The longest workout we have ever done - not counting warm up and warm down - would be under 20min, I think we have never worked more than 20min. That's not counting the Fall phase.”
So here's my challenge...I'm going to pick one of the next seasons (either SCM this fall or SCY in the spring) and try and adapt to this regime...anyone else game?
I think I'd not enjoy spending so much less time swimming, to be honest. If the training is simply a means to an end then this might be appealing but I swim as much for the fast time as I do for just liking to be in the water a whole lot.
While I agree that there is a lot of overtraining in swimming, and not enough race-pace training, the kind of training of the T&F athletes doesn't appeal to me personally. I'm just too much of an endorphin addict. Still, I'll look forward to looking at the results of Paul's (hopefully well documented!) experiment. Who knows?
I hesitate to throw out the baby with the bathwater. In the SI article on Phelps, Bowman was taking his swimmers to 70 practices in 24 days before the Olympics. Yardage isn't mentioned, but it is a pretty good bet to be much more than the amount is being discussed here.
Yes, Dara is doing less than half her old training -- in the recent USA-Today article on Dara, she was quoted at 30-35,000 yards a week (this number keeps rising, for some reason, in the articles I've read). That is still far more than the vast majority of masters swimmers and it doesn't include her dryland work. And yet she said that she doesn't think she is training enough to do the 100 fly.
So I have a little bit of a hard time thinking that Phelps and Torres (and many other swimmers) are really so far off the mark.
Are you proposing to cross train during the experiment, Paul? If so, how much? Which distance, 50 or 100? Have to do more yardage for the latter? What sample workouts do you envision? I think I am pretty much work out like this, but not to Jazz's degree. I've been doing a bit more than usual for me this long course season and, frankly feel more fit. However, I'm willing to try the experiment for the fall IF cross training is involved. I'm an endorphin addict too.
Some more thoughts:
- Nothing in this would be revolutionary by any means, in fact its not to different in many was as th Race Club trains (from what I understand).
- There was no discussion of weight training, I plan on looking into it a bit more but this echoes what Hoch has said in the past about weight training not being proven as effective for swimming. I've never "not" lifted during a swimming season and will look at maybe going without once...given the state of my shoulder the last 4 months it might not be a bad idea.
- Fort, not sure about any cross training. Doc Chris has pointed out that things like cycling may help in base level conditioning but are not directly applicable to swimming. Think about it...when have you ever set aside 4 months to do something radically different and 100% focused on the end result? I love to cross train as well...and the social side of being on a team (although I'm sure the coaches and swimmers would enjoy seeing less of me!)...so this would be VERY had.
-Hoch, regarding the 400 guys never doing the 800...for one, that is my point in harassing Hulk about using a "400" as a warm up for his sprints. You would never see a track sprinter running 1500m as a "warm up". But what the article says is it didn't matter if you were a 400 specialist or something different or longer...the training distances change relative to the race being prepared for.
I always liked Bill Pilczuk's method of training. According to a friend of mine at Auburn who was coaching at the time Pilczuk beat Popov in the 50, his pre-taper weekly yardage was a total of 8,000!! I found it hard to believe but my friend said he was not joking. Apparently, Pilczuk spent alot of time just walking around the pool and thinking while the other swimmers racked up the yardage.
It does seem like sprinters are often overtrained for their events. A few coaches seem to be moving toward less yardage and more recovery between sets. I've heard that David Salo is one of these coaches along with a few others. Anybody know of any others?
I always liked Bill Pilczuk's method of training. According to a friend of mine at Auburn who was coaching at the time Pilczuk beat Popov in the 50, his pre-taper weekly yardage was a total of 8,000!! I found it hard to believe but my friend said he was not joking. Apparently, Pilczuk spent alot of time just walking around the pool and thinking while the other swimmers racked up the yardage.
It does seem like sprinters are often overtrained for their events. A few coaches seem to be moving toward less yardage and more recovery between sets. I've heard that David Salo is one of these coaches along with a few others. Anybody know of any others?
Elise...but here's the interesting thing which was also in the last ASCA journal...this same training philosophy can/should apply to ALL distances. Sure a marathoner is going to have significantly more time training longer distances than a 50, 100 or 400 specialist...but the theory is training for "speed"...at all distances.
I'll repeat what Rich Abrahams has said so often "when masters swimmers swim slow they swim to fast and when they swim fast they swim to slow."
When I switched from track sprints to the pool, I just didn't get the short rest thing and the volume. It quite honestly rocked my world and I really suffered. I have since gotten more used to it.
In swimming once you are out of the 50's, there is a giant aerobic component and strength endurance that must be trained. This is proven for one minute plus efforts. But if I did just 50's in the pool and nothing else, my swimming workouts would be COMPLETELY different.
As far as generating lactic acid, swimming does not generate nearly the same concentration in any body part that sprinting 200's generates in the legs on the track (IMO).
Elise...but here's the interesting thing which was also in the last ASCA journal...this same training philosophy can/should apply to ALL distances. Sure a marathoner is going to have significantly more time training longer distances than a 50, 100 or 400 specialist...but the theory is training for "speed"...at all distances.
I'll repeat what Rich Abrahams has said so often "when masters swimmers swim slow they swim to fast and when they swim fast they swim to slow."
Paul - I agree with you on the speed issue. It seems for all distances whether in track or swimming, the fastest way to improve is to do intense, race-paced efforts in training. My only question would be is whether the body can handle the constant intensity.
I guess one thing I would ask is who's to say track is doing it right? If you look at the all-time top ten in the 400 in track Lee Evans and Larry James are both still in the list and they did their times at the 1968 Olympics in Mexico City! Michael Johnson's WR of 43.18 is less than 0.7 seconds faster than what Evans ran and Johnson's record has held up for nearly a decade now.
The 100 meter in swimming is closest in time to the 400 in track. In 1968 the world record for the 100 free was a 52.2 set by Mike Wenden of Australia. That time is well outside the U.S. Olympic Trials cut in the 100 now.
When I switched from track sprints to the pool, I just didn't get the short rest thing and the volume. It quite honestly rocked my world and I really suffered. I have since gotten more used to it.
In swimming once you are out of the 50's, there is a giant aerobic component and strength endurance that must be trained. This is proven for one minute plus efforts. But if I did just 50's in the pool and nothing else, my swimming workouts would be COMPLETELY different.
As far as generating lactic acid, swimming does not generate nearly the same concentration in any body part that sprinting 200's generates in the legs on the track (IMO).
Rob, not sure if you "strayed" from the point of the article...but I'm asking because of your background and think you have a better understanding of this than myself and other "non-runners".
What I take from the coaches training philosophy is that its quality regardless of the distance. If you just took Wariners weekly workouts for a 400 and increased by a relative factor of 4 then does that make sense for a 1500m runner AND a 200-500 swimmer?
