Breastroke Pulldown

Try kicking first and then pulling, a couple of coaches said they played around with it on the old TF discussion and it was quicker. see: www.youtube.com/watch Except that this, by rule, is considered an illegal technique. USA Swimming rule 101.3 (taken from the FINA rules) states "Kick - After the start and each turn, a single downward butterfly kick FOLLOWED by a breaststroke kick is permitted" Now, there may be wriggle room in the meaning of 'followed' as in sometime after, the fact of the matter that in this case, it should be the next independent action taken. When I ref, this is the definition that I brief and when I stroke and turn that is the definition that I use. I have email USA swimming and FINA numerous times asking them to just add the word 'immediately' just before 'followed' in the wording or to alter the wording in such a way as it can only be interpreted in this manner, or to change so that the 'single butterfly kick must coincide with or immediately follow the arm pull' But so far, in the last 2 years I have heard nothing back and have seen no changes. Paul

It is my understanding that according to to FINA rule the dolphin kick could be before the pulldown,but the official USA S and USMS interpretation does not allow it.

I never have to worry about being disqualified for dolphin kicking in a breaststroke race. I just do not swim breaststroke. It is for romantics.:canada::canada::canada:

I am resurrecting this thread since the way the rule is interpreted has changed.I was playing around with the early dolphin kick(at the hand separation,before the pulldown.)I think I was going farther,but I am not sure I was faster.I am also worried about a DQ if I do the early kick and then unconsciously add a second one(at the point I have been practicing since the last rule change.)I am also not sure that I want to be underwater longer on that last turn of the 200 BR.Anyone else playing with it and what are you learning?

My issue is getting my hands back up after my full pull down and dolphin kick--I think I come to a complete stop when pulling my hands and arms back up to begin my first *** pull and break the surface of the water. I try to keep my hands and arms pushed under my body to decrease drag, of course, I add my first *** kick to keep from completely stopping, but it still seems like I am almost coming to a complete stopr. I was wondering what others did in this stage of the underwater pull out. Ellen, The secret here is is to have the palms of your hands lightly drag across your thighs and torso as you recover them. Next time in the pool just work pullouts and really focus on lightly dragging your palms as you recover.

My issue is getting my hands back up after my full pull down and dolphin kick--I think I come to a complete stop when pulling my hands and arms back up to begin my first *** pull and break the surface of the water. I try to keep my hands and arms pushed under my body to decrease drag, of course, I add my first *** kick to keep from completely stopping, but it still seems like I am almost coming to a complete stopr. I was wondering what others did in this stage of the underwater pull out. My coach worked with me on this recently, as he was watching and told me that it looked like I was coming to a complete stop. Note that I don't do the dolphin kick, so I don't know how that fits in. Anyway, when you get to hands fully extended, you bring your hands together (he told me almost like I'm praying or some yoga stance, yet not quite touching), and pull them up quickly very close to your body. The first few times I did this, they brushed against my crotch and torso, but after a few tries I managed to get close enough yet not brushing. I started to really feel the push of the water/bubbles against my body, was a strange feeling at first but I got used to it. Evidently, by dragging them close to your body, it gives them less drag against the water. Since I incorporated this change, it took 1-2 sec off of my 100 *** in workouts.

Here's a slo-mo underwater 9-second video of Kitajima in the BR turn. The video stops before the pullout, so doesn't address the question, but I found it instructive: www.youtube.com/watch Athens 2004 Olympics Women's 200m BR final: very clear underwater image of swimmers doing the pullout recovery (after initial dive) with palms-to-body technique described by Paul. The first turn also has an underwater view, but only one swimmer is doing the pullout in camera range; it's still clear. I didn't watch further (Amanda Beard and Leisel Jones are swimming): www.youtube.com/watch I'll look for a few more tonight. I slow because I am too deep when it's time to start stroking for real.

I have been playing with the dolphin kick for a while, and here is what I think: 1. doing the dolphin kick in the middle of the pull down, when at max velocity, breaks streamline and is counter productive. 2. if the dolphin kick must be done at some point during the pull down, not before or after, it should be done at the point at which the pull down is contributing very little or not at all to forward motion. 3. I have found that if I do the dolphin kick just as my hands start to move laterally out of the streamline position, I can remove the dead spot in the pull down. I am now dolphin kicking as my hands are separating from a streamline position. It takes a moment to get my hands into the catch positions, and this seems like the perfect time to do the dolphin kick. I can not take my time getting my hands into the catch position. The pull down may be a bit longer, but we move faster underwater anyway.

My issue is getting my hands back up after my full pull down and dolphin kick--I think I come to a complete stop when pulling my hands and arms back up to begin my first *** pull and break the surface of the water. I try to keep my hands and arms pushed under my body to decrease drag, of course, I add my first *** kick to keep from completely stopping, but it still seems like I am almost coming to a complete stopr. I was wondering what others did in this stage of the underwater pull out.

I got DQ'd for doing dolphin kick just as I was starting to move my hands back toward my feet (I think I was pretty much in streamline). I had always done the kick then, and at Worlds in Stanford was not DQ'd, but at USMS meet was. My coach said he felt the most forceful place to dolphin kick is when your arms are at your hips, but I like doing it earlier. I just need to remember not to be in streamline. Though not very clear, I think USMS rules require that your hands have started to pull before the dolphin kick.