Breastroke Pulldown

With the ability to do a dolphin kick now along with the pulldown, what is the proper timing. I have been out of swimming for a while, and when I competed, we couldn't use the dolphin kick at all.
  • I don't think USMS has changed it's interpretation officially yet,but USA-S just did to define the start of the pull as any lateral or backward movement of the hands.In other words if you separate your hands the pull has started.
  • Pacific Masters, at least, seems amenable to the new interpretation. The following is from the PMS January 1 update e-mail: BREASTSTROKE INTERPRETATION From USA Swimming "...we have been informed that FINA's interpretation is now different from our previous understanding of what constitutes the beginning of the first arm pull. In order for our interpretation to conform to that used by FINA, the following interpretation is being made, effective immediately. For purposes of Article 101.2.3, as it relates to what constitutes the initiation of the first arm pull and the allowed single downward butterfly kick, the following applies: After the start and after each turn, any lateral or downward movement of the hands or arms is considered to be the initiation of the first arm pull. " I, for one, am a happy camper!
  • and once again FINA has opened a massive Can-O-Worms(tm), before the judgement portion had been removed from the rulling by having the kick occurring AFTER the initiation of the arm stroke, where that had been ruled as the start of the hands moving towards the feet. Now it's hand lateral and/or downward movement of the hands and/or arms. Trained officials are taught to look at the hands first and now they have to look at the hands, lower arms, elbows AND upper arms all at the same time? Yeah, nice job FINA. Way to 'simplify' that rule. Sorry, this one should have been left alone as it's orginal intention (other than the Kitajima Effect) was to eliminate the judgement call with regards to the hip and leg movement during very strong pull downs. And now that's back in the mix because swimmers will kick first, then complete the pull and in doing so, we will be RIGHT back where we were before this rule came out, wondering it that undulation of hips and legs was as a result of the pull or a seperate kick.
  • Just as a point of additional information, the following has been sent to all LMSC Chairmen, Editors, Webmasters, club contacts and coaches in an effort to get it to as many USMS members as possible. The complete notice which includes information on the backstroke turn (no change in interpretation) and how to run dual-sanctioned meets with USA Swimming will be posted on the discussion forum with the Rules Corners. It will also be posted on the USMS web site news. BREASTSTROKE USA Swimming has issued an updated interpretation of the initiation of the breaststroke arm pull to conform to the FINA interpretation. USMS Swimming Rules: Part 1 of the USMS Rule Book are based in part upon article 101, “Individual Strokes and Relays”, of the USA Swimming Technical Rules which includes the breaststroke. The updated interpretation will apply to USMS competition (USMS article 101.2.3). See the following text published by Bruce Stratton, Chair of the USA Swimming Rules & Regulations Committee, December 8, 2008: Text from USA Swimming:“In 2005, FINA made changes to the technical rules for breaststroke which allowed a single downward butterfly kick during or at the end of the first arm pull after the start and after each turn. As required by USA Swimming Rules, we changed our technical rules for the breaststroke to conform to the changes made by FINA. During the time since the change, there has been much confusion about what constitutes the beginning of the first arm pull. Based upon the (USA-S) Rules & Regulations Committee understanding of FINA’s interpretation and actual practice in international competition, our guidance has been that the mere separation of the hands or arms does not necessarily constitute the beginning of the first arm pull. However, we have been informed that FINA’s interpretation is now different from our previous understanding of what constitutes the beginning of the first arm pull. In order for our interpretation to conform to that used by FINA, the following interpretation is being made, effective immediately. For purposes of Article 101.2.3, as it relates to what constitutes the initiation of the first arm pull and the allowed single downward butterfly kick, the following applies: After the start and after each turn, any lateral or downward movement of the hands or arms is considered to be the initiation of the first arm pull. Here ends the text from USA Swimming. Kathy Casey, Chair USMS Rules Committee rules@usms.org
  • Kathy, do USMS judges follow the USAS rules/interpretations? In other words, is doing the butterfly kick at the initiation of the pulldown (as described in the USAS interpretation) now legal is USMS meets?