Breastroke Pulldown

Start by extending at the waist just before the pull down to give extra ROM.Then just let the kick flow as an undulation in time to the arms in the pull down.Maximum thrust is about when arms are at ribcage. that's pretty much what I do. I try to get my whole body into a wave motion. starting when my hands start to pull down. someone asked if it effects times. not sure if it effected standards, but if you watch two swimmer race where one has a much better stroke, but doesn't have an affective pulldown. they will spend most of the race playing catch up. I have seen swimmer so fast between the flags, but slow turns and no distance off the wall loses them 0.5-2.0 for 50-100 races.

anyone do their dolphin kick after the hands are totally done with the pulldown?

I have played with it,but for me it seems slower.Also,if you have any leg movement during the pulldown,the ref will think that was your legal dolphin kick and the late one you purposely put in will DQ you.

Good point about the DQ thing. I have just been playing around with the timing, and honestly, I don't think the dolphin kick is getting me any farther if I do it in rhythm with the pulldown.

Try kicking first and then pulling, a couple of coaches said they played around with it on the old TF discussion and it was quicker. see: www.youtube.com/watch

it was hard to tell from the angle, but it looked like he lost ground on the turn. I think he lost the ground on his last (long) stroke into the wall whereas Kitijima had his last stroke timed better.

Except that this, by rule, is considered an illegal technique. USA Swimming rule 101.3 (taken from the FINA rules) states "Kick - After the start and each turn, a single downward butterfly kick FOLLOWED by a breaststroke kick is permitted" Now, there may be wriggle room in the meaning of 'followed' as in sometime after, the fact of the matter that in this case, it should be the next independent action taken. When I ref, this is the definition that I brief and when I stroke and turn that is the definition that I use. I have email USA swimming and FINA numerous times asking them to just add the word 'immediately' just before 'followed' in the wording or to alter the wording in such a way as it can only be interpreted in this manner, or to change so that the 'single butterfly kick must coincide with or immediately follow the arm pull' But so far, in the last 2 years I have heard nothing back and have seen no changes. Paul Well, that would be bad... I wonder if the USAS/FINA rules are worded differently? Here's the USAS Rule: Kick — After the start and each turn, a single butterfly kick, which must be followed by a breaststroke kick, is permitted during or at the completion of the first arm pull. Following which, all movements of the legs shall be simultaneous and in the same horizontal plane without alternating movement. That seems pretty similar to the USMS standard, so it comes down, as you say, to a matter of interpretation. I want to try kicking first to see what it does. I feel like a lot of the power of the butterfly kick is lost in the power of the pulldown so it's probably beneficial to do the butterfly kick first, if legal.

Kick — After the start and each turn, a single butterfly kick, which must be followed by a breaststroke kick, is permitted during or at the completion of the first arm pull. Following which, all movements of the legs shall be simultaneous and in the same horizontal plane without alternating movement. Then Hansen would have definately deeked if the S&T caught it at least under the new rule wording. And that's the problem. 95+% of S&T judges would not have been able to clearly see that the kick was started before the arm pull was even initiated. Hmm, they have updated the wording for 2008 as the 2007 version that I have has different verbiage. Paul

Then Hansen would have definately deeked if the S&T caught it at least under the new rule wording. And that's the problem. 95+% of S&T judges would not have been able to clearly see that the kick was started before the arm pull was even initiated. Hmm, they have updated the wording for 2008 as the 2007 version that I have has different verbiage. Paul On second read, it does say that the kick must be completed "during or at the completion of the first arm pull". If the kick occurs BEFORE the arm pull begins, then it appears to be a violation. I'm with you. I'll stick with doing the kick so that it completes around the same time as my pulldown completes.

it was hard to tell from the angle, but it looked like he lost ground on the turn.