Dara Torres-Amazing

Since we have only scratched the surface on eff Is this really true? Only scratched the surface? I thought technique and efficiency were a huge focus now? I guess just because her feats are superhuman doesn't necessarily make them humanly impossible. There could theoretically be genetic outliers. But even the doc says it's not possible. Most of the super fit people I know look amazing, but yet still notice ever so slight diminutions in strength and "ability" as they age. They also report that they do not recover from injuries as quickly or are more likely to incur injuries. This is, however, all anecdotal. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, folks, whether we are a player or not, whether we are fast or slow, or rich or poor, or whatever.

You have lived in New York too long ... Is it the cynicism or the standing up for myself part? Or the fast walking? The entertainment in arguing? The obvious rhetorical brilliance? The fact that I get better insults from the eighty-year-olds on the subway? God, I am so confused.

That would speak volumes about you as a person. I think you missed the joke.

My point is that you can't achieve wunderkind status on relay medals. So I find the "she was so awesome, of course she can stay awesome" argument poor. Because I questioned her medals, you got all "how many medals do you have?" I just used your own logic against you. If you don't like it, don't do it to other people. What if I believe that thinking she is not doping makes someone an idiot? (Hypothetically, I mean.) You have lived in New York too long ...

I never claimed relay medals and individual medals were the same, but you seemed to knock her for "only" having won relay golds. I think making the Olympic team is a huge accomplishment and I'd take a relay medal of any color. Relay medals to me show the depth of the country and take four (to eight) people to win - no one can really slack. My point is that you can't achieve wunderkind status on relay medals. So I find the "she was so awesome, of course she can stay awesome" argument poor. I feel like I was personally attacked first and certainly more viciously. Because I questioned her medals, you got all "how many medals do you have?" I just used your own logic against you. If you don't like it, don't do it to other people. I think we should ALL drop the personal attacks. This is all opinion based afterall. No one should be told they are an idiot for believing what they want. What if I believe that thinking she is not doping makes someone an idiot? (Hypothetically, I mean.)

SCYfreestyler, No one has ever done this in swimming. She is the first. If you don't like the Rich Saeger comparison.... then consider the Susan Vonder Lippe (Rapp) comparison. She's a multilple olympic team member as well. Sluggo8: Dara is won of the better female sprinters this country has produced..... but I would never say she is on of the "most gifted " swimmers. Those kinds of adjectives are reserved for individuals like Tracy Caulkins, Mary T., and Janet Evans. John Smith Mr. Smith my return argument would be that none of those three swam sprints or were at least true sprinters. I think the sprints are the hardest to win and dominate. Tracy Caulkins is in a league of her own, one I think Katie Hoff has the potentital to be in as well. Mary T is also unreal. If she could replicate her times she could be on the team, too. She's a couple years older than Dara. Janet was amazingly talented too. She was a true animal. The way she trained and swam is just amazing. I do think sprinting is entirely different though. While I certainly wouldn't bet my life that Dara is clean. She is enormously talented and seems to come under suspicion everytime she swims. I'd like to give her the benefit of the doubt. Until I see or hear about a positive drug test I'll stand by my beliefs.

I don't see how you can possibly argue that winning only relay medals is as good as winning individual ones. It's nothing to be ashamed of, but that is not the question. Anyway, you might want to check out who began the personal attacks. I never claimed relay medals and individual medals were the same, but you seemed to knock her for "only" having won relay golds. I think making the Olympic team is a huge accomplishment and I'd take a relay medal of any color. Relay medals to me show the depth of the country and take four (to eight) people to win - no one can really slack. I feel like I was personally attacked first and certainly more viciously. I think we should ALL drop the personal attacks. This is all opinion based afterall. No one should be told they are an idiot for believing what they want.

SCYFreestyler, You are right. Let's give all the top finishers lie detector tests. I'd love to see the results. I find it interesting that Dara is now pretty much able to keep up with Rich Saeger, age 42, the fastest man in the world over 40. He was a peer of hers and also made the Olympics in 1984 on the 800 relay. He went a 50 point 100m freestyler back in college. After training for the masters world games last year he went a startling 1:55.0 for a 200m free and 53.4 for a 100m free. I would like to think that Rich has more testosterone flowing through his veins than a women of relatively equal age..... :-) John Smith

Lie detector tests are used or used to be given in Bass Pro tournaments to make sure they did not cheat.... Say, pick three very credible lie detector companies and have someone who is "suspect" take three tests by highly credible companies. THe FBI/CIA utilizes these companies/tests within their agencies to keep tabs on agents after they found that one trader had given the USSR Top Secret information that got three of our undercover agent killed in Europe. Some of the new lie detectors (from what I read) are pretty dead on in "most" people. And again, I am not saying she took drugs..... Wonderful. Why should Dara be subject to any more scrutiny than any of our other elite athletes in swimming? Does Michael Phelps need to take this lie detector test as well? Or is it only people who draw significant scrutiny from those on USMS.ORG?

Lie detector tests are used or used to be given in Bass Pro tournaments to make sure they did not cheat.... Say, pick three very credible lie detector companies and have someone who is "suspect" take three tests by highly credible companies. THe FBI/CIA utilizes these companies/tests within their agencies to keep tabs on agents after they found that one trader had given the USSR Top Secret information that got three of our undercover agent killed in Europe. Some of the new lie detectors (from what I read) are pretty dead on in "most" people. And again, I am not saying she took drugs.....