Dara Torres-Amazing

One must admit that when an athlete opens themselves up to random and frequent screening the option of cycling on and off is not really available to them anymore. So really, the only option that seems to exist is that she is using something that is not detectable..possibly due to the fact that it is unknown as you have suggested previously. Have to disagree with this Matt. We're not talking about old fashioned anabolics steroids anymore. Drugs that flush from the body in a matter of days or weeks still offer positive residual effects. The option is still there between testing and major events to cheat.

Should we really compare Dara to Angel Martino? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Martino test positive for testosterone and was kicked off the 1988 Olympic team? If I remember correctly, she blamed it on her birth-control pills.

Rob, That's true, a substance is either legal or illegal.... no gray area. John Smith Not necessarily. There is the legal term of "Not Illegal". Not being illegal does not mean its legal. They just can't test or agree on amounts that become illegal.:coffee: It seems the whole issue here is the "gray area".

Bonds is a lot like Rasmussen, there is very strong circumstantial evidence to say that he is doping, but there is nothing solid. I don't think that Ande is doping, and I'm not aware of any circumstantial evidence to that effect. He may be using some sort of Broca-enhancing brain stimulating chemical for his wordsmithing, but I don't think he's using any athletic performance enhancing agents. ANDE RASMUSSEN IS NOT A DOPER!!:joker: Oh, wait - cycling...that other Rasmussen...never mind:doh:

I can't believe anyone thinks she *isn't* on drugs to be honest. And yet I find the optimism charming. Call me an optimist then, I think she is an amazingly talented individual and I do not think she is "doping".

I don't know what it is about super athletes, it could just be their stupidity gets amplified more than the everyday Joe's. Most have lived quite the coddled life since about age 12 and maybe they think they are above it all, since they generally have been. When you've skated through life on sheer physical prowess, maybe things just don't register, like, say, buying a house for dog fighting when you make $20m+ to play football. I have a friend who lives this life but even he calls it "fantasy land" and is one of the few who realize that life isn't so easy when you make less than zillions playing games.

Should we really compare Dara to Angel Martino? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Martino test positive for testosterone and was kicked off the 1988 Olympic team? If I remember correctly, she blamed it on her birth-control pills. Cripe! To pull a blue muppet, DISCLAIMER: I am by no means an authority on this subject, and I know a lot of women use these for regulatory purposes too, but were I to be a female with a shot at the olympics, any pre-games :banana: hubba:kiss1: hubba:banana: would be out the window. I'd want no chance at taking that risk. No forbidden dance & no pills, or no olympics. I'd take the former. That's just me. (i'll probably be sorry for barging in on this feminine topic later)

Out of competition testing is random, it is also extremely infrequent. Lat year FINA conducted just over 1000 Unannounced Out-of-Competition Tests (about 140 in the USA). And while some like Hansen and Phelps were tested 5 times last year, most elite swimmers were tested once or twice, if at all. If an athlete was desperate for drugs, they could take their chances. Not necessarily. There is the legal term of "Not Illegal". Not being illegal does not mean its legal. They just can't test or agree on amounts that become illegalBill, in the world of anti-doping the WADA list of prohibited substances and methods is rather explicit. For example, it is “illegal” to take any anabolic steroids, no matter how small the dosage. Taking prohibited substances (without a TUE) is never “not illegal”. No grey area in the law, only in the application of the law. Think of a driving analogy; it is “illegal” to drive 56 MPH in a posted 55 MPH zone (no grey area in the law), however the accuracy of speed detection devices and the randomness of police speed traps, embolden some to drive illegally.

The reason I bring her up is because before 2000 she had more Olympic medals than Dara did. Amy Van Dyken also had more Olympic medals than Dara did and these swimmers swam the same events that Dara did as well as Jenny Thompson. All the more reason Dara is Cal Ripken. Positive tests still make me queasy.

Here's a few who have taken the second route - Landis, Ricky Williams, Ben Johnson, a couple of baseball players this year, the whole Cincinnati Bengals team, every bicyclist on the planet, Michelle Smith, it's a rather endless list. True. So does this give more veracity to those who are endlessly accused but have never tested positive? Why would the people you cited get caught if it were so easy to NOT get caught?