any input on expanding lungs

Does anyone have an advice or inpit for building up your lungs? I am trying to hold my breath for longer periods after reading an article about it but it seems like I should be doing more. I want to get better before I actually join the group in my area. I've read swimming 25's underwater can help. Not sure if you're doing that or just holding your breath and remaining still. Rich

That isn't nothing, but it isn't physiological either. Some_girl: This may be the most profound use of the double negative I've yet encountered! Excellent summation.

Here in gas mask land where I work, the physiologists have found no benefit in resisted breathing training, other than being better at resisted breathing. Other folks have put forth that your ability to suck in air is just not a performance limiter in any way. On the other hand, your diaphragm DOES take up energy in its own right, I suppose that resisted breathing training could make your diaphragm more economical at what is does meaning it requires less blood supply to do what it is doing. However to believe this you also have to believe that your heart's ability to pump blood is a performance limiter, I think this may or may not be true depending on the athlete and the distance of the race. There seem to be lots of ifs in this situation. I've always figured that controlled breathing for distance events is a pacing device only. Bill-- Thanks for the excellent explication here. Two sideline notes: 1) I took my son to U. Michigan a couple years ago. In 1970, I was the second worst person on the Michigan swim team, and I wanted to show my son the pool where I vomited during practice. It had been covered over and turned into a volleyball court! A metaphor, I suppose, for what has happened to me... In any event, we found the new natatorium where Bob Bowman was coaching two distance swimmers. I introduced myself to the coach, who was exceptionally nice (he ended up giving Ben and me a bunch of swag--t-shirts and the like.) Anyhow, I noticed that the two swimmers were wearing swim snorkels and repeating 100 m swims on a ridiculously short interview. I asked the coach if the swim snorkels were being used to help balance/smooth out their strokes. He said not really. Instead, there were diaphram-like membranes in the mouthpiece with a very small hole cut in it. The swimmers had to really struggle to extract air through this hole. I couldn't believe how fast they were going, a feat made all the more spectacular when I learned they were straining to breathe through pinprick sized holes! Evidently this was a way to train some aspect of their air-processing physiology, though I am not sure exactly what. 2) A magazine I write for is trying to arrange for me to get one of those hypoxic bed-tents that allow you to sleep at altitude and then workout at a normal air-rich environment. In recent years, it seems, the idea that you should train at high altitude has been discredited because you just can't do enough hard work to get in optimal shape. The concept now is to sleep at altitude, to basically "blood dope" naturally, but then work out where you get enough air to really train hard. Not sure if this will do anything for me except trigger a massive infarction, but I will keep you posted if the tent actually arrives!

Yes, sing.

The hypoxic set will do what some girl said it would: nothing. It might however train your mind to function in a hypoxic mode. The hypoxic tent however is something else. I know a triathlete close by who bought one (expensive, something in the thousands of dollars). It would be like training up in Lake Tahoe and then sleeping in San Francisco, without having to commute. The science behind this concept is that to train as hard as you can, you should be at sea level, but while you are sleeping "high", your body will produce more red blood cells naturally. I've heard of it used in swimming, but not as much as in running and cycling. billy fanstone

That isn't nothing, but it isn't physiological either. Some_girl: This may be the most profound use of the double negative I've yet encountered! Excellent summation. Thanks. I think the rule is you can break all the other rules as long as you do it with style. I'm always pleased to succeed.

Unless you've damaged your lungs at a young age, there is a steady progression downward that happens with all peole. You really can't maske your lunds bigger but you can make them more efficient. That's why they test for red blod cells amounts. Go blow up balloons.

I would do some breath control work at a moderate pace. Some 125s where you bilateral breathe and then only take 2 breaths on the last length. Some 100s where you breath every 3, 5, 7, 9 strokes increasing every length. You can also work on breath holding my increasing SDKs while you're swimming free, increasing from 3, 5, 7, to 9 underwater kicks every length before you start swimming. Or just some repeat 25s where you swimming moderately but only taking a couple breaths. Here's some solid scientific evidence that hypoxic training is just sadism/masochism that Geochuck posted on another thread: web.mac.com/.../S...C67503AFA.html

Bill-- Thanks for the excellent explication here. Two sideline notes: 1) I took my son to U. Michigan a couple years ago. In 1970, I was the second worst person on the Michigan swim team, and I wanted to show my son the pool where I vomited during practice. It had been covered over and turned into a volleyball court! A metaphor, I suppose, for what has happened to me... In any event, we found the new natatorium where Bob Bowman was coaching two distance swimmers. I introduced myself to the coach, who was exceptionally nice (he ended up giving Ben and me a bunch of swag--t-shirts and the like.) Anyhow, I noticed that the two swimmers were wearing swim snorkels and repeating 100 m swims on a ridiculously short interview. I asked the coach if the swim snorkels were being used to help balance/smooth out their strokes. He said not really. Instead, there were diaphram-like membranes in the mouthpiece with a very small hole cut in it. The swimmers had to really struggle to extract air through this hole. I couldn't believe how fast they were going, a feat made all the more spectacular when I learned they were straining to breathe through pinprick sized holes! Evidently this was a way to train some aspect of their air-processing physiology, though I am not sure exactly what. 2) A magazine I write for is trying to arrange for me to get one of those hypoxic bed-tents that allow you to sleep at altitude and then workout at a normal air-rich environment. In recent years, it seems, the idea that you should train at high altitude has been discredited because you just can't do enough hard work to get in optimal shape. The concept now is to sleep at altitude, to basically "blood dope" naturally, but then work out where you get enough air to really train hard. Not sure if this will do anything for me except trigger a massive infarction, but I will keep you posted if the tent actually arrives!

.... I asked the coach if the swim snorkels were being used to help balance/smooth out their strokes. He said not really. Instead, there were diaphram-like membranes in the mouthpiece with a very small hole cut in it. The swimmers had to really struggle to extract air through this hole. I couldn't believe how fast they were going, a feat made all the more spectacular when I learned they were straining to breathe through pinprick sized holes! Must be a college thing. A kid from here that's a college swimmer has a snorkel with most of the end closed with duct tape. He refers to it as "the torture device".