How much endurance training?

Sorry Fort. I have nothing against levity,things had just gotten too personal for my taste. Mine as well. I'm sure most feel that way. No one likes to be attacked. Even people not in the profession. Thanks for the 200 IM tips.

I get the ASCA newsletter and magazine and would say this article is typical. It says what they do,offers a a few hypotheses and no evidence. They seem to believe there is a window owing to common experience. Common experience is not nothing but it is not hard data. Where are the studies? Maybe there is a window,but starting when and for how many. If there is a window it would almost certainly follow a bi-modal curve with different peaks for male and females. If it were "8-10" it would almost certainly close for some at 8 and not open for others until 12. If it exists what is the minimum and what is too much. Other than Swimming Science Journal does anyone know of a swimming periodical that sights studies and gives data. Sorry about the rant,I'm just tired of conventional wisdom being passed off as science. The window may exist,if so prove it.

I just did a computer search of aerobic capacity in children. I am not great at computer searches so I may have missed something,but I found no references to a window in journals with scientific data. Does anyone have a reference to any studies.

For the record, I have absolutely nothing against running, I ran for many years and enjoyed it immensely, I only stopped due to knee problems. I think the knee problems were due to living out here in the boonies where the shoulders on the road have a fairly steep grade. My only point was that for me, and for many, running was not a mindful activity in the way Terry is mindful when swimming, but running is very popular. I wasn't concentrating on perfecting my running technique, I was just enjoying being out of doors moving. I am not articulate enough to really capture it in words but I think there is a natural joy in physical movement, whether it be running or swimming or dancing or.... There is also a joy and satisfaction in improving and doing something better than before, but I think that is something different.

Lindsay more injuries are caused by not thinking at all times, whether running, biking or swimming. Take care of the body by defensive activities, I would never let anyone give me a friendly punch in the arm part of my preparation to swimming. When I ran I was very selective where I ran the same on the bike. But accidents do happen like stepping in a pot hole at the 1958 Commonwealth Games the day before the 110 yards and breaking my ankle. They tapped me and injected me with novacane and I raced but not well.

I am not sure why I don't like the article on training 8-10 year olds so much,aside from it's total lack of data. I'm sure this type of training is very good for many,perhaps most swimmers. However,it is a fact(for which I have seen data) that USS is trying desparately to recruit more boys. It has been said in that same journal that boys like to race. Then this article proposes a non-racing,anti-sprinting formula. My fast twitch muscles(and probably my testosterone)recoil from this. I know more than a little about child developement,cardiovascular systems,and energy metabolism and I can't see a mechanism for this window. None the less if there is data backing up this hypothesis I'd love to see it.(Data is not the same as saying"it works for X Olympian so it must be right.)

I am not sure why I don't like the article on training 8-10 year olds so much,aside from it's total lack of data. I'm sure this type of training is very good for many,perhaps most swimmers. However,it is a fact(for which I have seen data) that USS is trying desparately to recruit more boys. It has been said in that same journal that boys like to race. Then this article proposes a non-racing,anti-sprinting formula. My fast twitch muscles(and probably my testosterone)recoil from this. I know more than a little about child developement,cardiovascular systems,and energy metabolism and I can't see a mechanism for this window. None the less if there is data backing up this hypothesis I'd love to see it.(Data is not the same as saying"it works for X Olympian so it must be right.) I didn't really like the article too much either. There is a difference between yardage for 10 & U kids and 13 & O kids. I know that GoodSmith complained in one thread that kids were showing up for college with no "engines" from too much focus on technique. But when is the real engine building supposed to start? 10 & U seems kinda young, like you would risk burnout. And I thought the focus was supposed to on technique then anyway. Plus, if you're doing distance at that age where do you have to go if you're, for example, an early maturing girl whose growth tails off in early adolescence? But that is all just supposition on my part. As you say, it would be nice to have "hard" data. My son the runner says he has seen the theory espoused in the swimming article in some running books he has read. I'm sure they weren't scientific, but I might check them out. It sounds like that article has gotten your goat! Thank you for keeping us up to date about any emerging computer research or thoughts!

Pauls most recent endurance training: Wednesday: - drive 5 hours from Phoenix to Vegas, set up trade show booth for 2 hours Thursday: - wake up at 4am, get dropped off at airport for 6am flight to Denver - arrive Denver 8:30am, attend to 2 meetings - arrive home at 2pm.....shovel and snowblow snow for 3 hours Friday - 1am, wake up to see 6 inches of new snow on the ground - 2am, shovel snow - 3am.....drive thru blizzard to airport in hopes of catching an earlier flight back to Vegas......by 5am roads are shut down and schools closed from snow - 7:30am, make it onto flight after deicing delays make it to Vegas by 9am - Laura picks me up....go to hotel, nap for an hour..go to trade show - 6pm...take clients out for dinner and gambling till? :drink: Saturday - 6am.....wake up check some emails, post on forum....get in car and drive 5 hours back to Phoenix........:coffee: Water? I don't need no stinking water! :rofl:

Pauls most recent endurance training: Wednesday: - drive 5 hours from Phoenix to Vegas, set up trade show booth for 2 hours Thursday: - wake up at 4am, get dropped off at airport for 6am flight to Denver - arrive Denver 8:30am, attend to 2 meetings - arrive home at 2pm.....shovel and snowblow snow for 3 hours Friday - 1am, wake up to see 6 inches of new snow on the ground - 2am, shovel snow - 3am.....drive thru blizzard to airport in hopes of catching an earlier flight back to Vegas......by 5am roads are shut down and schools closed from snow - 7:30am, make it onto flight after deicing delays make it to Vegas by 9am - Laura picks me up....go to hotel, nap for an hour..go to trade show - 6pm...take clients out for dinner and gambling till? :drink: Saturday - 6am.....wake up check some emails, post on forum....get in car and drive 5 hours back to Phoenix........:coffee: Water? I don't need no stinking water! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: I don't need no stinking water either. Just good drugs. I guess life interferes with everyone's endurance training...

Pauls most recent endurance training: Wednesday: - drive 5 hours from Phoenix to Vegas, set up trade show booth for 2 hours Thursday: - wake up at 4am, get dropped off at airport for 6am flight to Denver - arrive Denver 8:30am, attend to 2 meetings - arrive home at 2pm.....shovel and snowblow snow for 3 hours Friday - 1am, wake up to see 6 inches of new snow on the ground - 2am, shovel snow - 3am.....drive thru blizzard to airport in hopes of catching an earlier flight back to Vegas......by 5am roads are shut down and schools closed from snow - 7:30am, make it onto flight after deicing delays make it to Vegas by 9am - Laura picks me up....go to hotel, nap for an hour..go to trade show - 6pm...take clients out for dinner and gambling till? :drink: Saturday - 6am.....wake up check some emails, post on forum....get in car and drive 5 hours back to Phoenix........:coffee: Water? I don't need no stinking water! :rofl: I think shoveling snow at 2 am counts as endurance training, and probably intervals as well!