Are shoulder injuries due solely to improper stroke mechanics

How unfortunate that we can't have an orthopedist on here as well as a cardio MD. Due to the differences is anatomy, age, stroke (swim stroke, not the blockage type), workout volume, percentage of that volume performed with good stroke and percentage performed at point of failure causing poor stroke, etc. it would be impossible for shoulder injuries in all people to be caused by the same factors.

In 34 years of coaching I've seen no evidence fly is "hard on shoulders." You may even have technique that's less sound than you think. I would much rather be doing this :hug:. I think I'm actually on record as praising Terry for his advice, interest and coaching in many other threads. Indeed, I think I've told others to follow his technical advice to avoid injury. I would be happy to do :hug: here too if I hadn't been scolded for being a bad lawyer and told that 34 years of coaching trumps anything I might say about fly.

Are there techniques that materially immunize you from shoulder problems while allowing maximum performance?...My reply is an emphatic YES ... No question poor technique can predispose an individual to shoulder problems, just as good technique can lessen the risk. But materially immunize? That's a pretty strong statement. You posted that most shoulder problems are related to technique. Given the prevalence of shoulder problems in swimmers, elite and otherwise, are we correct in assuming then that most of them do not have proper technique? My point is that the shoulder is a complex joint, and swimmers face many of the same anatomic issues that pitchers do. Anyway, my solution was to treat the inflammation, strengthen the rotator cuff, and of course improve my technique (most recently by breathing bilaterally).

Would it be fair to say that the fastest way across a pool is not the safest for your shoulders? Things such as early vertical forearm and pulling through the catch might increase speed but they will also increase wear on the body, no?

Whoa! You mean there are good lawyers? What do you call 100 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean? I clearly should have told Chlorini I was a lawyer in a PM. I know that joke, Gull. Answer: A good start. Here's another: How can you tell a lawyer is lying? (2 possible answers) Terry: I cannot bring myself to write a reply brief tonight. I will just say that I don't believe I fall into that close-minded "swimming culture" you've mentioned. I also have never, ever suggested anything in the way of self-interest on your part. To the contrary, I think (and have said) that it is admirable that you offer practical, technical and training advice to everyone on the forum. It's obvious you put a lot of time and thought into it, and I am sure it benefits many of us. I count myself in that group. I am still doing that freestyle drill you recommended to me. I also think your experience provides valuable perspective and insight. Who could disagree with that? I was just being feisty on the "most" injuries are caused by poor technique point. I'm allowed to quibble with you on this, and I'm apparently not the only one, judging from the poll results thus far. (It doesn't look like you voted!) In fact, everyone has a viewpoint here. :woot: Mine is that my current shoulder problems are not due to poor technique and that other people's problems may not be either. Race ya in fly anytime. (I'm giving you the distance free and open water...)

Nor did I infer that 34 years of coaching trumps anything. I don't think "infer" is the right word here. Perhaps you meant that you didn't mean to "imply" it? I hope not. It seemed kind of implied. As just one example (too tired to round them all up), I said "fly is hard on shoulders." You said, "in 34 years of coaching, I've seen no evidence fly is hard on shoulders." I'm taking Solar's advice, :bow: , and staying away from fly for a bit. I think I'll do fly drills instead. Gotta make sure I'm chest pressing.

I think Terry's main point is that there are many programs where shoulder problems are taken for granted and people treat them with ice and medication etc. without making a serious attempt at finding technique-based solutions. QUOTE] This goes for any stroke! Last season, the three fastest freestylers in our club all suffered shoulder problems. (one still has not yet returned to the pool). I don't think the other two have made any effort to change anything about their strokes.

Sleep on one side, face on back of hand and elbow pointed at bed headboard =vs= Sleep on one side, lying atop arm =vs= Sleep flat on back Any studies done on the effects of sleep posture ?

I would be happy to do :hug: here too if I hadn't been scolded for being a bad lawyer and told that 34 years of coaching trumps anything I might say about fly. Whoa! You mean there are good lawyers? What do you call 100 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean?

Lindsay: How do you know I haven't been a swim coach? Are you on Terry's payroll? Thanks for the thoughtful answer. I will have to mull it over some more. But I can safely say that I do not fall into the category of swimmers that are unwilling to make changes. I also do not fall into the category of swimmers that are doing fly incorrectly according to your description and my own knowledge of the stroke. As you yourself pointed out, I think it is difficult to be an elite flyer if you're doing the stroke wrong. If you want to improve fly, slow down. Relaxe, and initiate ondulation with the head. Before surfacing, look up. Look at where you're about to surface before your head breaks through the water. That'll bring your upper body in a favorable angle to ease up the recovery. Breathe every stroke is ideal to work on this aspect. Personally, even when I don't breathe, I like to move the head upward ever so slightly. I tend to agree with you on one aspect. Anything can upset an already sore shoulder, including butterfly. So ease up on the volume. Don't exced 25m at the time to keep technical level sufficient. Butterfly will hurt you bad if you commit into distances that trigger heavy fatigue. Cause then you don't have the ressources anymore to recover.