shoulder clicking

Let's not loose sight of the fac that "wybosome" is a new swimmer. My original point is that if you are new at something, there will be initial pain brought on. I speak from multiple experiences. Let's say you take up swimming at 40 years old, and for the sake of argument you have flawless form and train 5 days a week (90 minute workouts), including sprint intervals. I would not be surprised if shoulder tendonitis came early in training progression due to sudden overuse. I don't know if we know enough about "wybosome" yet: Physical age, weight, training age, training program, volume, intensity, strength, prior injury, etc. I am not dismissing good form at all and good coaching.

*squawks 7500* Pilot, huh?

Actually it's "wrybosome". Or Tim. Age: 34 Height: 6' Weight: 230 Have been training since June, and a little bit about 2 years ago. I'm following a routine I've modified from TI and Emmet Hine's book of workouts. Lots of drill sets, but some additional yardage to better my endurance. Sometimes I adapt the printed masters workouts to a yardage I can do in an hour (say 2000 yards instead of 3000 or 3500). I watched the masters at my Y swim and was told they like people to be able to do 100m in 2 min, which I can definitely do but not for more than a few sets. Once I get to that point I want to start working with the masters team here. So I haven't had any coaching yet. I can only do freestyle so far, but am starting to work on *** and back to relieve the shoulders a bit. My freestyle stats look like: golf score on 50 m: 72 average strokes/25m: 18 lowest strokes/25m: 14 Best time on 50m: 38 s Distance in 15 minutes: 900m but that was with a buoy I tend to go hard on any given set because it seems to hold my form together better. My legs sink when I go slow. I don't have any previous injury with the shoulders. BillS: Took lessons till I could land the thing every time, but not licensed. For some reason the transponder codes stuck in my head.

How many workouts a week and what is the yardage for each workout? What specifically are your workouts? I'm trying to get a handle on this. Doing 100's on 2 minutes is a crazy fast workout for a new swimmer. I went through the same thing. You may need to back off for a while. I augment my swimming with alot of pullups in the gym to help strengthen the back. I think it helps. You need to be careful though. You are a big guy and that can strain shoulders in and out of the pool.

"...better than anything else you can do." Consistent with what I've been saying. Nonetheless, as you have posted a detailed description of your personal experience on the other thread, I understand your point of view. You feel you're doing everything possible to mitigate and yet your shoulders still become inflamed periodically. I'm sure you think about your technique constantly. You do your prehab exercises pretty religiously. So in practice, our behavior is exactly the same. Our experiences are different. Hmm.. I still think "mitigating other causative factors better than anything you can do" is different from the position that technique is the "primary" or "pre-eminent" causative factor. The first goes to mitigation after causation, the second goes to initial proximate causation. I think perhaps, consistent with TI principles of mindfulness, you might not want to let the professed "mindset" get too "set." Why, I myself, tried to do that Michael Phelps breathing every stroke fly for awhile as an experiment, but I was just slower that way. And remember, despite all my teasing, I did try butterfrog! :yawn: Now, on the other items quoted above, thank you, you're exactly right!! (I'm really sorry if I bored you with too much personal experience. My bad.) I'm frustrated. And I'm also frankly pissed off that, since I've been swimming, my shoulders have broadened and I've had to buy some new shirts. Who wants that to happen unless the shoulders are making a contribution in the pool?! :shakeshead: I am quite sure I botched things up when I was young as well. I don't recall technique being emphasized very much way back then. It was all yardage and race stategy and and puking if you were super tough. I never heard the term "SDK" back then, that's for sure. As a result, I've actually been pretty obsessed with technique since I started back. It's jolly good to know that swimmers, such as yourself, can bounce back so well from acute shoulder problems. :applaud: However, I think you may be more patient (and definitely more mindful) than me. We may have different anatomy as well, which causes my shoulder issue to recur. It's that gross "dessication." Yech. Blech.

Tendonitis, yep. This should go away with time and rest. I think the clicking is due to inflamation. This is just something that occurs with taking up something new. It freaked me out. I woud recommend a few things: 1. Get someone who knows what they are doing to look at your stroke, preferrably a coach. Sometimes great swimmers can't convey in words what is wrong, but a good coach can. If you don't have a coach or team, get to a meet anyway and have an on hand deck coach look at your warmups. Just ask, everyone helps. 2. Forget the short repeats for a while. Your intensity is going to naturally skyrocket in a workout like that which can be hard on the shoulders. Especially if your technique is poor (recommendation 1). 3. I can't recommend this, but I swam with the tendonitis and used it as feedback to experiment with my catch. I found that placing my hand in the water and letting it fall into deeper water before applying real power created a pain free stroke. I also learned not to over reach. 4. Go for longer comtinuous swims of 1000 to 1500 yards. This will help create a base ( a new swimmer needs this) and reduce the forces on your shoulder because you will be fatigued. Swimming fatigued will help you concentrate on your glide, balance, rythm and timing. The base you develop in longer swims will help you get through higher intensity interval training later. Practice and Learn bi lateral breathing in your longer swims.

It was all yardage and race stategy and and puking if you were super tough. I never heard the term "SDK" back then, that's for sure. As a result, I've actually been pretty obsessed with technique since I started back. I remember puking. Especially if I had too much :drink: the night before.

Was hoping to move up to 4x per week with the swimming, it's a lot more fun than running. Went to the doc yesterday and was diagnosed with tendonitis in the long head of the biceps. Was told to not swim for a minimum of 2 weeks and then start physical therapy. That's what doctors always say, "rest." I don't buy it. I had biceps tendonitis and rotator cuff tendontis last year. I didn't "rest" per se. I cut back and did some restorative swimming as needed. Resting rarely helps in the long term. The tendonitis or soreness often comes back once you hit the water again unless you start agonizingly slowly. I'd start doing some RC exercises pronto and get some massage or ART therapy. Just my view, of course. Find a doc, or PT or ART guy who can help you swim through it with caution. They do exist. But how come swimming is more fun than running? At least in the non-summer months, you're outdoors when you're running. I had a very nice run today. Geez, I hate opening a thread and seeing "Nor have I lost my mind" at the top of the page ....

Rtodd- I've been swimming 3x weekly and crosstraining with running and (easy) gymnastics. Was hoping to move up to 4x per week with the swimming, it's a lot more fun than running. Went to the doc yesterday and was diagnosed with tendonitis in the long head of the biceps. Was told to not swim for a minimum of 2 weeks and then start physical therapy. Which means I'm doing spin classes at the Y :mad: Spin class peeve: When you go to a spin class because of a shoulder injury and they decide that everyone is going to work on upper body strength by doing a kind of half-assed pushup on the handlebars while pedaling. To answer your question, the last workout I did looked like (adapted from Emmet Hine's book and using his drill names): WU:4x75 on :15Rest drills with short fins 4x25 on :20Rest side glide balanced breathing no fins Main Set: 6x50 on :15rest alt 50 side glide freestyle/5 & glide/swim fast (hand swapping) 4x100 on 2:20 1x200 with pull buoy 2x25 drills with fins 2x100 on 2:00 4x25 alternating back/*** (just learning these) CD: 2x50 drills no fins 2x50 drills with fins 1850m Thanks again for sharing your experience! :drink: for you. How many workouts a week and what is the yardage for each workout? What specifically are your workouts? I'm trying to get a handle on this. Doing 100's on 2 minutes is a crazy fast workout for a new swimmer. I went through the same thing. You may need to back off for a while. I augment my swimming with alot of pullups in the gym to help strengthen the back. I think it helps. You need to be careful though. You are a big guy and that can strain shoulders in and out of the pool.

But how come swimming is more fun than running? At least in the non-summer months, you're outdoors when you're running. I had a very nice run today. Geez, I hate opening a thread and seeing "Nor have I lost my mind" at the top of the page .... Lol. It beats when you open a thread and see, "That sounds like something Hitler would say." I like running a lot, but it's just conditioning. Swimming is a skill and therefore more interesting. I didn't have to learn to run. I don't think I want to swim through this though. It hurts picking up my toothbrush with the left hand. But maybe I'll go back earlier than I thought. RTodd: I'll try that once I'm in the pool again. Could definitely use somone looking at my stroke. Longer repeats? I don't want to swim slowly 1000y, must be what I need then.