shoulder clicking

I'm not trying to tell someone to ignore a shoulder click and train through it hard. But if relatively new at swimming, back off a little and see what happens. I can't say don't go to the doctor, because I don't know all the specifics. It took me two years to overcome "shin splints" when I started track sprinting. That's a long time, but eventually they went away and never returned. I am only speaking from my experiences. I attributed my swimming shoulder problem to a lack of strength and sudden "overuse" of my shoulders. I simply proceeded with caution and the problem went away. I agree that once fully conditioned in a sport, problems that arise are not developmental in nature and should be closely examined. It really helps to have a coach or someone who knows what is "normal" and what isn't. One other thing that helped me was learing all four strokes. Aside from butterfly (deadly for the shoulders), I think they work the shoulders differently, especially ***. Changing up your workouts, including kick sets, can give the shoulders a break.

If you are a new swimmer like me, I think this is "normal" I started having shoulder problems (some clicking, deep pain) after taking up swimming about 2 years ago. After building up the correct muscles to hold the joint together, it went away. Now I swim 5 times a week instead of 3, with twice the yardage and no problems. If you are new, give it a chance to resolve by backing off so you dont get hurt, but don't quit. If it doesn't eventually go away within 6 months or so, then get help. I've been to alot of doctors for various things and they always tell me to just stop what I am doing..........gee, what a great idea, I'll just watch TV instead, why didn't I think of that.

I don't think it's healthy to endorse what is already a too-easily- accepted notion that shoulder problems ought to be considered in any way "normal" in swimming. Most such problems are technique-related, not related to the simple act of swimming. As you know, Terry, I don't agree on this point. I think shoulder problems are a perfectly "normal" swimming phenomenom. It is all-too-easy to ascribe problems to improper technique. But the evidence, zillions of swimmers with shoulder problems (many on this website), suggests there are other origins too. It is often plain overuse or having done insufficient exercises to strengthen the small rotator cuff muscles. If you haven't done those exercises, the simple act of training can become painful. And I'm an optimist at heart too.

Thanks rtodd, I have no intention of quitting, I'm just starting to get faster and stronger. I swim ~ 3 days a week. I've been crosstraining with running and gymnastics during the rest of the week and so far the plan's been pretty good, letting me work out 5 or 6 days a week with no injuries. I started out 2 years ago and had to quit because of an acident. Now that I'm back in I really don't want to get forced out of the water by taking a strained shoulder and making it an injured one. So I'll be trying these starting yesterday: www.usaswimming.org/.../ViewMiscArticle.aspx And I'll be trying Terry's advice about delaying the catch, steep entry angle, and stable arm position for the pull. I know I begin that when the arm is still essentially straight overhead. Hopefully between those and throwing some back and *** into the workouts I can beat the shoulders without having to cut back much, although I'm taking a few days off no to let the inflammation and soreness go down.

I didn't say you had accepted anything. I said the swimming culture is far too accepting of the prevalence of shoulder injury. I said it is the primary causative factor. Are you suggesting there is some other factor that plays a larger role? Pretty good word smithing for a non-lawyer, KaizenSwimmer. I think we are actually not that far apart on our views, despite the fact that you seemed to imply I was part of that "culture" you denigrated. (I can't be. As you see, I'm clearly not the "accepting" type.) Here's what I said: "I completely agree that, in many cases, poor technique is the culprit. But I don't think it's true in all cases." Here's what you said: Improper technique is the "primary causative" factor. So our views are actually fairly similar. It's a matter of degree. To sum up, I still stand by what I said in my prior posts: I think shoulder injuries can be caused by many things, including improper technique, anatomy, volume, overuse, failure to strengthen the rotator cuff muscles,weight lifting, etc. I just don't buy that proper technique will eliminate all shoulder problems. I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say "most" either. I'm not sure what is the largest causative factor. I'd need to look at the research on that one before I do the analysis. But the anecdotal evidence on volume, even from Lindsay, suggests that volume is not a non-factor. It may be a quite significant one.

Hey folks, don't hijack my thread. *squawks 7500* Sorry, Tim. This hijacking thing happens sometimes. That's why I started the poll. At least you're getting an earful on shoulders. The "deep" pain you describe sounds more like tendonitis. Be careful.

I have to disagree in the strongest possible terms. The exact opposite has been true. Too many people who ought to know better have accepted the idea that shoulder pain and injury is an expected, even acceptable, "price to pay" for achieving any level of accomplishment in swimming. I.E. if significant numbers of swimmers on a team regularly require ice therapy, that's "normal." An athletic culture that so blithely accepts what is truly an epidemic of injury like this has lost its collective mind. Terry: Wait a minute. I resemble that. I don't think I've "blithely accepted" anything. Nor have I "lost my mind." Nor do I think I should have to "pay this price." In fact, I personally am doing everything I can not to pay this price. I completely agree that, in many cases, poor technique is the culprit. But I don't think it's true in all cases. When I was younger, I never had any shoulder problems. I tore my rotator cuff in college weight lifting (although it may have been worn down from mega yardage as well). I also have the "loosey goosey" anatomical problem Beth mentioned. I also don't think my stroke mechanics in fly, back and free are all that bad, although I am always striving to improve my freestyle. It sounds like the age groupers you've coached are doing moderate yardage, so they would not be evidence of what mega yardage can do. While I am not a swim coach (currently) or author (of swimming books), I too have spoken to many orthopods, ART therapists, PT therapists and fellow swimmers and coaches. Everyone seems to agree that stroke mechanics are extremely important in preventing injury. But no one seems to believe that improper mechanics is the one and only authentic definitive cause of shoulder injuries. I don't think it makes me a mindless acceptor of preconceived dogma to agree with this limited proposition. I think you are engaging in somewhat wishful, highly theoretical thinking in asserting that a beautiful stroke alone can save you from shoulder pain and vault you to the highest levels of swimming.

Do you feel any pain? There is pain but it doesn't occur with the clicking. Sort of a background pain through the 'deep' part of the shoulders that comes and goes after workouts and varies with their intensity. It may be related. If the *pinch* isn't sharp, the pain might not be. But it might become.

Hey folks, don't hijack my thread. *squawks 7500*

I haven't and wouldn't claim that it will. What I will state categorically is that proper technique will mitigate all other causative factors better than anything else you can do. I think there has been a slight retrenchment in your position, counselor. You've gone from shoulder injuries being "mostly" due to improper stroke technique, to a "primary causative factor" to "mitigating other causative factors." I did briefly check the mayo clinic websites. Now, I did not have time for an exhaustive analysis because I'm busy writing other stuff. But the articles I scanned praised swimming for being low impact and advocated proper stroke mechanics, but still said you can get "overuse tendonitis" and that swimming itself "may inflame" the rotator cuff muscles.