The first loss of a master is memory, the second...I forgot. I probably have already asked this question, but here goes:
Does anyone bring their arm straight down and out after the grab? I am talking no sculling, no lateral movement, just bringing the arm straight parallel with the line maintaining the elbow high position. This would be to avoid crossing the midline with your forearm. Even though I breathe on the left, I still rotate fully to the right (a learned and trained and voluntary movement), but even so my right forearm tends to the middle, while my left arm has less pull and is erractic. When I learned the crawl it was from watching Tarzan movies, later when I was 16 and in a USA high school they taught the S shaped movement or the straight down and back. In those days the breathing was to one side. Last question: aside from timing both methods, what are your preferences on the long dolphin versus "less dolphin" emerging sooner method of starts and turns on a 50 meter short course freestyle race? Thanks, billy fanstone
Former Member
Solar I beg to differ lots of yards pools in Canada. Sorry.
But there aren't a lot of them in Quebec though. I've never found one.
Arm strokes can be done straight arm or in whatever way you wish, modify to stop pain. Agreed.
Fortress I have seen over time swimmers just about break every rule of having the perfect stroke and they have suceeded. I have yet to see the perfect stroke and I am sure we will not see that until the records can not be lowered.
Fortress I have seen over time swimmers just about break every rule of having the perfect stroke and they have suceeded. I have yet to see the perfect stroke and I am sure we will not see that until the records can not be lowered. Well that's because we've been in the long distance swimming business mate.
I remember this darn Hungarian. Atila Molnar. Straight arm recovery all the way. Very simple technique. Very simple feeding protocol too : go at the grocery store, get some cheap fruit juice and there he goes.
And he often finished in front of us.
Even Sheiley Taylor-Smith didn't bend the arms all that much (like a lot of ladies). She'd fall in the straight arm recov caterogy in my opinon. Yet, 7times World Champion.
Fortress I have seen over time swimmers just about break every rule of having the perfect stroke and they have suceeded. I have yet to see the perfect stroke and I am sure we will not see that until the records can not be lowered.
George and Solar:
Under the coaching section, there is a thread entitled "shoulder injuries." It has some good posts. One in particular says that straight arm free may be better for shoulders. There's a post on what you should avoid doing on fly, but I don't think I'm doing any of those no, nos.
Solar:
My team did not do any 200s today in yards, so I did not stroke count. But I swam a couple thousand by myself yesterday in a 25 meter pool and tried to do a couple 200s. By 25, they went 14, 15, 15, 15, 16, 16, 16, 16 at a moderately fast pace (no paceclock in this pool, so I don't know my time). I'm sure if I did it at true race pace, my stroke count would go up. But I don't think my distance per stroke is actually too bad on free. I think it's worse on backstroke. So I'm not sure I need that much sauce. Now I'm sure there are many other things I need ... A vacation ... a backrub.... Another teammater told me today that he too has switched back to straight arm free. He says it's not bad for the shoulders ...
Solar:
I was counting in a 25 meter pool. I may be doing a little bit of that late catch cheating you refer to when I swim freestyle distances over a 100 though. I'm just not, by nature or preference, a distance freestyler and my stroke does break down, although occasionally I find that distance "zone" -- usually in a long course pool. And to be honest (so Lindsay doesn't scold me), I usually have fins on when I'm swimming longer distances of free because it really doesn't agree at all with my shoulders. Or sometimes when we have long set of 200s free, I do them all back instead. I think I may have tried that underbody sculling thing. It's very slow, if I recall. I could do that.
Solar:
So I'm not sure I need that much sauce. I concure. You know, here up north we don't have any pools in yards. Euh wait a minute. This stroke count you gave me, was it in yards or in meters?
Can anyone translate a yard based stroke count into a meter based stroke count? But let's continue the inquiry over your stroke count if you don't mind. I'd really like to link it with a swimming speed, to be sure this count is done while swimming a natural freestyle.
If you really swim on a 16str/25y, I expect this to equal 18 str/25m, then given your record of injuries, I would favor underbody scullings. That would help you finding more water while your arm is under your body, thus in a position that's not dangerous for tendinits.
Now that's a complicated concept here. So let me explain. Many swimmers, especially at the master level, "cheat" on distance per stroke by :
- Gliding for too long
- Putting too much pressure on the catch (as a result of having glide for too long).
I call that late catching. Now let me be a bit more specific.
Say you stroke rate is 60 stroke per minute (not 60 full cycles but 60 strokes. 60 splashes in other words). Simple enough. It means you have 2 full seconds to perform the complete stroke. if you don't glide in the front, you can spread the strain more evenly across the pull through phase. But if you wait for too long, then you don't have as much time to pull. Therefore late catching bug involves putting more strain on your poor shoulders because they are in a weak position while catching.
Now you may ask why do people late catch? Simple. Because if feels great. It feels great to glide. And it's easier to feel the catch when you put more pressure on it. Asking some master swimmers not to glide as much in the front sometimes make them loos all their feelings.
One solution is to practice sculling in a position where your arms are a bit more under the body, instead of in the fore front.
Another teammater told me today that he too has switched back to straight arm free. He says it's not bad for the shoulders ... Well I remember having recommended this practice more than once. I think you read my story about Alex (the blue eye red hair little devil). But it's a drastic change (at least I think). I would recommend it to someone only if I see this person swimming. And if it's through a clip, I need good angles.
Solar I beg to differ lots of yards pools in Canada. You just have to look for them. Check out the older Y pools. Arm strokes can be done straight arm or in whatever way you wish, modify to stop pain.
One of the great Australian swimmers John Marshal had a combintion of one staight arm for the full phase above and under the water the other arm had a bent recovery.
