new at butterfly, quick question on workouts

I found it was easy to beat the club crawl swimmers in 25 yards or 50 yards doing just the dolphin kick in practice.

Thanks for the info. I ordered fins a week ago. Still waiting for them. It sounds like some people can do a "relaxed" fly for extended sets and others need to do fly at a good pace. It has a 'little bit' to do with one's ability to accept to look ridiculous. When learning to find a speed allowing for long butterfly sequences to be swam, one's stroke doesn't look like a butterfly, but rather like a caterpillar :laugh2: Anyway. Good luck and have tons of fun with your fins !

fins have their uses. like last night. i was working with the minis (8 and unders) that i coach and we were working on butterfly. for kids that little, it's much easier to work on things like proper timing, getting arms out of the water instead of dragging across, etc when wearing fins. the kids absolutely love when they get to put fins on, and they know they have to work hard or we coaches will make them take the fins off. but masters is different. far too many people either use them as a crutch or to be lazy... when masters use fins properly, they are a good training tool. but how many people use them to try and keep up with a lane, when it would be more advantageous to leave the fins off and slide down a lane? tons. and that's detrimental to improvement, IMHO...

I just use them when/because my shoulders hurt, but I, nonetheless, always get yelled at or teased about it. The other day in practice, we did a stroke/kicking fin set and my teammates said "now the playing field will be level." I still kicked their butts. Last night, I got a cramp in my calf. Someone said, "it's those damn fins." I don't even think that was true -- I think it was because I ran earlier in the day. It goes on and on. (I will note that a world record holder on my team is absolutely non-plussed by it and always gracious. Maybe he's secure enough to not be bothered?) My husband can't understand why people rag on me over fins when they know I have shoulder problems. (Like Peter Cruise, I will probably be managing them for the next 20 years.) I can never really answer that question for him. He thinks it's because people have such big egos that they get pissed off if you happen to go faster than them, even though everyone knows it's artificial speed. Maybe it is just jealously or sour grapes. I think every team should have a lane for people with shoulder problems so they are not endlessly ragged on for not doing "real swimming." Geez. I work very hard and try to stay out of everyone's way. I'm worried enough about avoiding pain, I don't need someone's outsize ego or preachiness on top of it. Sorry, just a sore spot for me. :frustrated:

again i say, fins have their uses... leslie, you're a perfect example of people using them with a specific purpose in mind, namely keeping your shoulders healthy. there's nothing wrong with that. i have issues with the people who are using them to to keep up with a lane that's too fast for them (a crutch) or who "just don't like kicking", or who see no value in working on kicking, etc (laziness)... i personally pride myself on being able to beat most fin wearers when i'm fin-less. :D

fins have their uses. like last night. i was working with the minis (8 and unders) that i coach and we were working on butterfly. for kids that little, it's much easier to work on things like proper timing, getting arms out of the water instead of dragging across, etc when wearing fins. the kids absolutely love when they get to put fins on, and they know they have to work hard or we coaches will make them take the fins off. but masters is different. far too many people either use them as a crutch or to be lazy... when masters use fins properly, they are a good training tool. but how many people use them to try and keep up with a lane, when it would be more advantageous to leave the fins off and slide down a lane? tons. and that's detrimental to improvement, IMHO... Since I don't swim with a group, not me. Fins really, really helped me at the beginning when I was just learning. I rarely use them for fly sets now.

Since I don't swim with a group, not me. Fins really, really helped me at the beginning when I was just learning. I rarely use them for fly sets now. ah ha! you've hit the nail on the head with my personal fin philosophy... you, leslie, swimmerlisa, and some others seem to have a balanced look at when fins are appropriate, and when they are not. i'm betting leslie and swimmerlisa don't use theirs for every single kick set, that you're not wearing them every time you do fly in practice, etc etc etc. unfortunately, too few masters have this enlightened approach to responsible fin use. ;) peter, is "punch your lights out" really a zen phrase??? ;) (yay! this post morphed me into a "very active member"!)

There is one person who swims when I do that wears fins the whole time they swim. I always wonder why, but then figure to each their own and at least he is getting his exercise.

Mollie: Sorry. Thought you were comparing me to an 8 year old. I don't usually kick with fins unless it's a fin kick set. I'm definitely not lazy. I had thoughts of puking last night. I usually do fly with fins unless it's before a meet. My experience is that, when I get too enthusiastic and do lots of fly without fins, I really suffer. I never use fins for breaststroke. :) But a breaststroker friend of mine told me that they are coming out with breaststroke fins. Then breaststrokers can get ragged on when they become fin addicts. :laugh2: Peter: I may use "punch your lights out" one day. They might believe me. Since I'm always doing weights for my shoulders, I have pretty toned arms -- even though I use fins! :lolup: SwimmerLisa: I think you're right. They don't really believe you're in pain. Or they don't realize how painful the pain can be. (They say, we're sore too.) Or they don't realize the injury can be chronic and require constant mangement. Everyone thinks it should vanish immediately if you're getting "proper" treatment and doing your home care. But, unfortunately, as you know, you can try to do everything right, but the pain can still come back. I'm sure there are more stroke modifications that would help (I'm not TI perfect, for sure), but I still think those are easier said than done. And I'm tired of hearing people say, "Why don't you just have surgery?" I don't have a tear, that's why. And I don't have a wife. And I can't stand not to exercise. Thanks guys. Leslie

Mollie: Sorry. Thought you were comparing me to an 8 year old. I don't usually kick with fins unless it's a fin kick set. I'm definitely not lazy. I had thoughts of puking last night. I usually do fly with fins unless it's before a meet. My experience is that, when I get too enthusiastic and do lots of fly without fins, I really suffer. I never use fins for breaststroke. :) But a breaststroker friend of mine told me that they are coming out with breaststroke fins. Then breaststrokers can get ragged on when they become fin addicts. :laugh2: oops! i had no intention of my post being interpreted like that! the reason i mentioned the minis is because they are a good example of when fins are appropriate (ie learning new strokes). :) and it's good to hear you're not one of the lazy finners. i swam with far too many of them in PA, so i'm very opinionated when it comes to fins... :laugh2: